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Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

bighospitality.co.uk

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Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#261

Post by SomeOtherThrow »

Japhy_Ryder wrote: post #254
SomeOtherThrow wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What? "Got Milk"? Milk mustaches on famous people and athletes? Come on. So—you're saying NOBODY would drink milk if they stopped advertising after THOUSANDS OF YEARS of drinking it as adults (true with my genes!) and MILLIONS OF YEARS of juvenile mammalian existence? Extent is not the same as the sole cause. I drink milk because it makes me nostalgic for my childhood and hey, it's calories, baby! In any case, you…

> I drink milk because it makes me nostalgic for my childhood and hey, it's calories, baby! Nostalgia, huh? Is that worth the environmental damage and severe ethics concerns? Not to mention, uh, you're drinking a cow's milk that should be for its children. We're the only species that does that. It's so odd. Soy milk tastes great, has a nice nutrition profile, and is actually good for you (and the environment, and the…

> Nostalgia, huh? Is that worth the environmental damage and severe ethics concerns?

No, I am but a weak and flawed human that likes dairy and meat. Ideally I'd stop eating and drinking all of this today.

> Not to mention, uh, you're drinking a cow's milk that should be for its children. We're the only species that does that. It's so odd.

Life is odd. I will say that I grew up around dairy cows and they don't seem to mind what happens to their milk, so that is emphatically not a concern for me, and I would not have been able to be around cows at all if it weren't for the dairy market. (how's that for an ethical dilemma? the animals that will survive the ongoing extinction event are likely to be exploited by humans.) The environmental and humanitarian concerns (e.g. meat eating, farming conditions) are much, much larger concerns for me.

> Soy milk tastes great, has a nice nutrition profile, and is actually good for you (and the environment, and the animals).

I don't disagree with this at all. I'm not arguing FOR milk, certainly not from an ethical standpoint, I'm just pointing out the ludicrous double standard of people with clear agendas to push plant-based drinks who then talk shit about "big dairy". It's all manipulative and shitty—comparing the actual food is much more interesting.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#262

Post by dgellow »

sandworm101 wrote: post #167
dgellow wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An animal need not have a brain to be an animal. How does that work? If I grew a chicken breast in lab, without the rest of the chicken, that's not an animal, right?

Is a human without a brain still a human? There are plenty of people in hospitals with zero brain function, some with virtually no brain matter, that still have full rights as humans. If a jellyfish not an animal because it doesn't have a brain? A worm? Many vegans choose not to draw lines between different types of animals.

That’s not what I was asking though. If you grew just the organ, how is that an animal? I’m vegetarian for environmental and ethical reasons, if we have a way to create a chicken breast in a lab by assembling proteins, I would definitely eat it.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#263

Post by phonypc »

Japhy_Ryder wrote: post #243
phonypc wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's not a lot of nutrients in meat (all you get really is protein and iron), whereas in vegetables/fruits you get a whole vast assortment of proteins Your whole post is ill-informed, but this is particularly nonsensical. Go look up nutrition information for any muscle meat and you'll see plenty more than just iron, to say nothing of organ meat. Regarding protein, you get a broader amino acid profile from animal…

> Your whole post is ill-informed Yet I've cited the WHO and Dr. T. Colin Cambell, author of the China Study. Where's your evidence? > Regarding protein, you get a broader amino acid profile from animals, but this doesn't really matter. Completely incorrect. Soy and pea protein are very much complete proteins with balanced amino acid profiles. How do you reconcile the environmental damage from your dietary preference…

>Yet I've cited the WHO and Dr. T. Colin Cambell, author of the China Study. Where's your evidence?

I'm really tired of this form of argument. The fact that you cited something doesn't necessitate its relevance, truth or your understanding of it.

You've also ignored the specific bit of your post I called out as more importantly inaccurate, so I'm really not interested in engaging any further.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#264

Post by jonfw »

Relys wrote: post #257
jonfw wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe abortion is generally immoral, but I also believe that my opinion is not important and should not dictate public policy. And when I say generally immoral, it obviously becomes nuanced when rape or young age is involved.

My parents decided to have an abortion because they were not financially ready to have children. I probably wouldn't exist if they hadn't. Does that mean their abortion had more right to live than I? My parents lived for years with the guilt that had been instilled in them by their religious upbringing. It was one of the hardest decisions they ever had to make so they could give their future offspring the best life p…

I certainly agree that there can be a lot of utility in abortions. Frankly that's the major reason why I don't support abortion legislation. I am somewhat a utilitarian and I understand that there are instances where the utility might outweigh the ineherent immorality. But I do believe that there is an inherent immorality.

Similarly, I think it is immoral to use force to get other people to do what you want. But that quickly becomes a nuanced argument when you start taking public safety into account, or crime prevention. Life doesn't take place in a vacuum so I'm not trying to pass judgement.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#265

Post by phonypc »

cferr wrote: post #249
phonypc wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the opposite of reality in my experience. Most vegetables can be quickly steamed, boiled, stir fried etc. Legumes or tubers take longer, but require little active participation. Meat on the other hand is greatly benefited by things like marination, mechanical tenderizing, monitoring temperature as it cooks. You can whip up a steak pretty quick, but probably not any faster than you could stir fry some veggies.

If we're talking steak in particular, it's going to be faster than any palatable vegetable based dish every time. Total cook time is about five minutes, and prep is less than a minute. Also in particular, stir frying isn't a great example of a vegetable preparation which is fast. Prep is usually at least twice the amount of time as the frying. Peanut butter celery sticks would be a better example I think.

A thin steak cooked as fast as possible, sure.

There are so many variables it's hard to say anything concrete, but on average I'd bet people spend less active time preparing vegetables to eat than meat.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#266

Post by progval »

davidweatherall wrote: post #12

What a terrible site. "This content is copyright protected" if you try and copy text from an article, and turning javascript off means none of the content is visible.

> turning javascript off means none of the content is visible.

This is actually quite common, especially for websites whose format is based on online newspapers.

Usually disabling CSS in addition to JS brings the content back.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#267

Post by [deleted] »

GeneralTspoon wrote: post #206
jonfw wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not much of a philsopher, but if you're at all interested in the other side of thinking I would suggest Viktor Frankl. He was a jewish person in a nazi concentration camp and he make a much stronger argument than I can for this point of view. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Frankl > After enduring the suffering in these camps, Frankl concluded that even in the most absurd, painful, and dehumanized situation,…

Not to minimize his suffering, but spending ~3 years out of his 92 year life being tortured isn't the same as a whole life of torture with no meaning or hope of escape.

[deleted]

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#268

Post by dfxm12 »

okmokmz wrote: post #201
dfxm12 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I'm lucky to have grown up in an area where restaurants almost always had some vegan options just as a matter of course. Tomato pie vs pepperoni pizza, pasta places with spaghetti so good, it doesn't matter if you get pomodoro or carbonara, dry fried szechuan string beans that sounds like "just a side" but eats like a meal, tacos with chicken, pork or veggies. Veg/vegan food was always just food to me, so all…

That's definitely not the norm. I'm in Seattle, and while it isn't hard to find restaurants with vegan options, you certainly won't "almost always" find vegan options if you just go into a random restaurant. I found the same thing to be the case in LA, lots of vegan options but they definitely were not in every restaurant. Perhaps you just self-select vegan friendly restaurants?

Perhaps you just self-select vegan friendly restaurants?

No. I've eaten pretty much everywhere around. Italian, Chinese and Mexican places in particular have built in vegan options pretty much by default. I'm surprised there aren't such Chinese or Mexican options in LA (although when confronted with something like "gan bian si ji dou" or even "dry fried green beans" on a menu, it's not immediately obvious if it's vegan or not).

I spent a bit of time in Seattle over a decade ago. I was trying to save money at the time, so I didn't order out much, but I do remember burritos from Taco Del Mar being fine no matter what is (or isn't) in them. There was a great place for fries called Frites which appears to be closed now and a bunch of Indian places, too. I also remember a hot dog place near the Lenin statue with all kinds of options, but any mention of that place seems to be wiped off the net, so I might have just imagined it. :)

I wasn't trying to say what is or isn't the norm, just that I don't understand why people make a such a big deal about what they, or others, are eating.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#269

Post by NeedMoreTea »

zeveb wrote: post #170
nicoburns wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is just not practical for me to go full-veg, where I live I would need to cook one hour a day for it, Why does eating meat mean you can cook less?

Meat is remarkably easy to cook: apply heat to meat, done. Vegetables take preparation, require more-complex treatment, need to be managed well (I have no problem eating a quick meal of just a steak or chicken breast; I really would hate eating a quick meal of only carrots or just onions). Meat's convenient in a way that vegetables aren't.

I can only assume you are buying your meat pre-boned and sliced or diced, chicken breast already removed from carcass etc, probably in some lovely single use plastic. In which case someone else did the prep for you, not sign there's less prep required.

Veggies are less effort: peel some, chop into suitably sized bits. To compare like with like compare with pre-sliced and peeled veggies, or animal carcass before skinning and butchering. :)

Something like a rosti with cheese or added spinach or cabbage is cooked meat speed fast and tasty, as are a whole host of the traditional leftovers recipes that grew up to use up spuds, carrots, cabbage etc next day.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#270

Post by sandworm101 »

saagarjha wrote: post #224
sandworm101 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegan can also mean food that doesn't involve the exploitation of animals. That version of veganism means no food that requires insect pollinators. A cutting-edge vegan discussion is whether lab-grown meant can be vegan. An animal need not have a brain to be an animal. And an animal grown in a vat is still an animal.

> Vegan can also mean food that doesn't involve the exploitation of animals. That version of veganism means no food that requires insect pollinators. I'm curious: what foods fall under this? Edit: I meant "what foods are OK to eat under this definition?"

Some don't eat anything "involving animals", nothing pollinated by bees, but others go with "not exploiting animals" and are ok with bees so long as it is natural pollination. Such vegans draw a line between natural pollination and the commercial delivery of bee hives to pollinate fields. Those hive often don't survive.
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