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Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

bighospitality.co.uk

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Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#141

Post by astura »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #103
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have it backwards. Vegan food is meant to show not only is it free of meat, but that it's also free of animal ingredients that might not be shown on the menu, such as butter. An apple would be suitable for a vegan, so could be labelled (needlessly) as such. A vegan is one who eats food according to those standards. If a takeaway menu picks out those options that are entirely meat free, and also free of an…

Slightly tangential but I noticed that the one of the cleaning fluids in the bathroom said "Suitable for vegans"...:-)

Many (but not all) dietary vegans are also holistic vegans, meaning they choose cleaning products, clothing, beauty products without animal ingredients and aren't tested on animals.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#142

Post by roenxi »

_bfhp wrote: post #123
Iv wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me that's a mix of ethical and environmental concerns. I agree that there is a point in the belief that it is unethical to kill animals. That's not the most unethical thing that is happening in the world, there are a lot of things to argue about, but in general, I agree that in an ideal world, we should not do that. The environmental concerns, I only buy half-heartedly. I don't really believe that land-owners wil…

I find the ethical-philosophical side of it interesting. In the philosophy of ethics, thought experiments can be helpful (or puzzling), like the trolley problem or the Categorical Imperative. So: Imagine if a wizard finished casting a very complicated and resource-intensive spell and the result is that every living cow, pig, chicken and turkey in the meat industry were replaced with a clone of a dog you've met. In th…

But the ethical base-case is potentially that none of those cows, pigs, chickens or turkeys are ever born. Case by case we couldn't say, but statistically a lot of farm animals are going to be reliant on human logistics, organisation and protection to survive in the numbers that they do.

So the question might reasonably be 'are the conditions these animals face worse than never existing?'.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#143

Post by astura »

Ensorceled wrote: post #50
mytailorisrich wrote: post #45

Vegan and vegetarian are absolute terms. The only meaning of "semi-vegetarian" or "semi-vegan" is that you're not either. "Semi-vegan" is a particularly nonsensical term.

I try to eat a vegan meal at least a couple of times a week and vegetarian usually once a day. If semi-vegetarian is off limits, what am I?

The term flexitarian was invented to describe this sort of eating pattern.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#144

Post by sandworm101 »

mattl wrote: post #126
sandworm101 wrote: post #109

How much of this is changing eating pasterns, and how much of this is the re-labeling of foods? "Vegan" is no doubt now a sales point, but many vegan foods have been eaten for centuries without that label attached. Slapping the sticker on them now doesn't mean that anything has changed beyond how we do the count. I also question the "vegan" label itself. Exactly what type of vegan are they talking about? Veganism isn…

Generally vegan meats meat-fish-seafood-and-dairy-free when you see it on a generic packaging or restaurant. Kosher at least in the US usually comes with a symbol and you know the ones that are legit (Orthodox Union is the most common in the US, the (U) symbol Ⓤ)

Vegan can also mean food that doesn't involve the exploitation of animals. That version of veganism means no food that requires insect pollinators.

A cutting-edge vegan discussion is whether lab-grown meant can be vegan. An animal need not have a brain to be an animal. And an animal grown in a vat is still an animal.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#145

Post by Vinnl »

roenxi wrote: post #142
_bfhp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the ethical-philosophical side of it interesting. In the philosophy of ethics, thought experiments can be helpful (or puzzling), like the trolley problem or the Categorical Imperative. So: Imagine if a wizard finished casting a very complicated and resource-intensive spell and the result is that every living cow, pig, chicken and turkey in the meat industry were replaced with a clone of a dog you've met. In th…

But the ethical base-case is potentially that none of those cows, pigs, chickens or turkeys are ever born. Case by case we couldn't say, but statistically a lot of farm animals are going to be reliant on human logistics, organisation and protection to survive in the numbers that they do. So the question might reasonably be 'are the conditions these animals face worse than never existing?'.

For a lot of them, the answer is most certainly yes, and if humans were in their positions, they'd say so too.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#146

Post by yters »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #133
Iv wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me that's a mix of ethical and environmental concerns. I agree that there is a point in the belief that it is unethical to kill animals. That's not the most unethical thing that is happening in the world, there are a lot of things to argue about, but in general, I agree that in an ideal world, we should not do that. The environmental concerns, I only buy half-heartedly. I don't really believe that land-owners wil…

> That's not the most unethical thing that is happening in the world I'm just going to refer to the factory farming article from 80000hours: https://80000hours.org/problem-profiles/factory-farming/ Considering that "Each year, 50 billion animals are raised and slaughtered in factory farms globally. Over a billion animals live in factory farms at any point of time in the United States. Most experience serious levels o…

Do the animals experience more suffering than if they lived in the wild? Is industrial slaughter more or less traumatic than death in the wild? Are there any benefits animals experience living in captivity vs living in the wild? Is there anything positive about more such animals getting to live in the first place due to demand for meat?

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#147

Post by zrobotics »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #103
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have it backwards. Vegan food is meant to show not only is it free of meat, but that it's also free of animal ingredients that might not be shown on the menu, such as butter. An apple would be suitable for a vegan, so could be labelled (needlessly) as such. A vegan is one who eats food according to those standards. If a takeaway menu picks out those options that are entirely meat free, and also free of an…

Slightly tangential but I noticed that the one of the cleaning fluids in the bathroom said "Suitable for vegans"...:-)

Same thing as 'vegan' imitation leather products: a vegan doesn't intend on eating their wallet or belt, but they won't buy genuine leather goods for ethical reasons. Thus, a vegan belt. For the same reason, a vegan would avoid animal fat based soaps.

Still humorous though, reminds me of the bleach drinking memes.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#148

Post by Vinnl »

Iv wrote: post #44
strict9 wrote: post #16

After 15 years of not eating meat, the past 1-2 years have been a golden era of vegetarian options in the grocery store, restaurants, and fast food. Based on anecdotes and my social circles, the number of people completely avoiding meat hasn't changed. But omnivores adopting a semi-veg lifestyle has increased. If I had to pick one thing, I'd say environmental concerns are the main reason my omnivore friends and colle…

For me that's a mix of ethical and environmental concerns. I agree that there is a point in the belief that it is unethical to kill animals. That's not the most unethical thing that is happening in the world, there are a lot of things to argue about, but in general, I agree that in an ideal world, we should not do that. The environmental concerns, I only buy half-heartedly. I don't really believe that land-owners wil…

> But I reduced my consumption more and more. It was surprising to see how my taste changed.

I experienced the same, which was really odd. I guess you can learn to like (or dislike) a taste.

The other thing I noticed that concerns about suffering started to weigh far stronger for me once the environmental concerns made me stop eating meat. I think that I subconsciously ignored or trivialised a lot of the information I got about what was and is actually happening in that sector.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#149

Post by slothtrop »

strict9 wrote: post #16

After 15 years of not eating meat, the past 1-2 years have been a golden era of vegetarian options in the grocery store, restaurants, and fast food. Based on anecdotes and my social circles, the number of people completely avoiding meat hasn't changed. But omnivores adopting a semi-veg lifestyle has increased. If I had to pick one thing, I'd say environmental concerns are the main reason my omnivore friends and colle…

Also, health and nutrition. Among health nuts many who consume meat advocate reducing intake whilst increasing legumes and veg. Even aping the popular aggregate "blue-zone" diets and the Mediterranean diet (the most researched of all) will lead to more restricted meat consumption than the standard western diet permits.

For those who like to heavily politicize diet, this is a perspective that gets buried by absolutists who like to identify as either pro/anti-meat. Silly.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#150

Post by sandworm101 »

gwbas1c wrote: post #91
strict9 wrote: post #16

After 15 years of not eating meat, the past 1-2 years have been a golden era of vegetarian options in the grocery store, restaurants, and fast food. Based on anecdotes and my social circles, the number of people completely avoiding meat hasn't changed. But omnivores adopting a semi-veg lifestyle has increased. If I had to pick one thing, I'd say environmental concerns are the main reason my omnivore friends and colle…

My stomach, ect, feel better when I eat less meat. But: I rarely order vegan in a restaurant. I find it's much easier to do vegan at home. Why? Mostly food safety and storage. After cooking vegan for a few weeks, when I cooked meat, I realized just how much of a pain in the *$$ maintaining food safety is.

>> when I cooked meat, I realized just how much of a pain in the *$$ maintaining food safety is.

Because you live in the west. In most of the world, plants can be just as dangerous as meat, sometimes more so. Google "pork tapeworm". You can get it from eating undercooked pork or, more commonly, from poorly-washed vegetables grown anywhere near pigs. Do you wash your salads in chlorinated water? I doubt it. You can only get away with that because, in the west, we have physically separated farm animals from crops.

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