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Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

danielsjourney.com

261–270 of 332 posts

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#261
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Campaign spending is not the whole picture. How many outside interests contributed otherwise to HC and DT in the last election? You can start an ad campaign against a candidate you don't like without that showing up in the campaign fund.

HC factically started her campaign right after the first Obama's term, had support of party leadership, and therefore major party donors, and having sympathies of the press. DT started his campaign a year before elections, was rudiculed by mainstream Republican opinion-makers until May 2016, was (and is) in a conflict with major donors (like Koch brothers), and had/has generally unfriendly relations with press. So un…

I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that campaign finances are only a partial picture.

I also think HC had much more backing.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe doesn't currently have a problem with building a wall to keep the Mexicans out or anything. This is plainly not true. EU has a lot of its own walls. It's just the fact that it lacks long land border with countries from which major migration flows originate is what makes it a lesser topic for debates. Why do you think migrants coming from the Middle East prefer to cross Aegean sea, instead of going by land? Bec…

> and even landmines with not a single gap Really? Are you talking about the landmines in Croatia that weren't fully cleared after the 1990s Balkan war? People were actually providing maps with the approximate locations of the fields so they can be safely bypassed. You make it sound like Europe is planting mines to keep migrants out. If the reaction of a small minority of European countries (2-3) seems exaggerated wh…

On that wikipedia page you linked, the 7000 (or 10000 since 1994) deaths are from all combined sources. The vast majority of those seem to be from exposure to the elements (for instance hypothermia is one of the most common causes of death) or accidents. If you read the part of that page that talks about Border Agents' use of force, around 17 deaths are listed, with an additional 10 left disabled. Your use of that source is a misunderstanding at best or dishonest at worst.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think quality of food and dairy is a problem in the USA and it has been a difficult thing for me everytime i have travelled there. When i've been to europe i've found the quality and preparation to be very good and consistent everywhere (big cities and small towns) but not always a lot of variety.

Like I said, quality of food varies. No matter where you are that is true, not every restaurant is the same. I’m not sure what you mean about the quality of dairy? US milk, eggs, and cheese are no different than any of the milk, eggs, and cheese of the same variety anywhere else in the world I’ve been.

There is huge variation in Dairy! French Milk (was) terrible, only UHT widely available, though fresh is now quite common. US milk is nothing like as good as British milk for freshness/flavour (though the latter is subjective).

US eggs are refrigerated, as salmonella is so prevalent. Not so in UK, where they are guaranteed salmonella free (nowadays 'thanks' to Edwina Curry)

And Cheese? Really - I'm fairly sure there is no equivalent of a nice ripe epoisses widely available in the US. Sure, cheap cheddar is just like Monterray Jack, but....

I have lived in the US for 8 years, France/Luxembourg for 2 and the UK for the rest.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every approach has downsides" does not mean one approach isnt objectively worse than others...

Which approach is better is very difficult to objectively evaluate. There are a vast number of yardsticks you could use, and I can't see two people ever agreeing on which yardstick is the right one to judge a health care system. Since cancer is one of the top quickly fatal medical conditions, I consider the wait to get treated for cancer to be an excellent yardstick for evaluating any health care system. In this rega…

Cancer is the second biggest killer in the US. There is no cure for cancer, any cancer. We can treat it if caught early enough by cutting it out. That requires having health insurance in the first place. Almost half the people who get cancer die from it within 5 years and that number is only that good because we're really good at breast cancer. Not sure cancer is the yardstick you want to use as how "great" the US health system is. Even among cancer patients you see disparities in how the wealth survive versus the poor, basically wealthy people do better. We're rationed the same as Europe, we just ration differently and claim it's because of social darwinism.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe doesn't currently have a problem with building a wall to keep the Mexicans out or anything. This is plainly not true. EU has a lot of its own walls. It's just the fact that it lacks long land border with countries from which major migration flows originate is what makes it a lesser topic for debates. Why do you think migrants coming from the Middle East prefer to cross Aegean sea, instead of going by land? Bec…

> and even landmines with not a single gap Really? Are you talking about the landmines in Croatia that weren't fully cleared after the 1990s Balkan war? People were actually providing maps with the approximate locations of the fields so they can be safely bypassed. You make it sound like Europe is planting mines to keep migrants out. If the reaction of a small minority of European countries (2-3) seems exaggerated wh…

I'm not claiming that EU is planting landmines against migrants. I'm telling that EU's border with migrant-providing regions is short, and already fortified - and that's why there's no discussion about border walls. And it's not a reaction of minority of countries: with all its postures, EU is not afraid to fund expansion and renovation of border fences not only on its own borders, but in other countries which are on typical migrant paths. If you want a projection on US: it's like there's a sea between US, and Mexico, except for a few strips, already fenced for decades, and US administration pays to build walls between Mexico, and Guatemala, Guatemala, and Honduras, and so on.

Btw, I'm quite certain number of migrants drowned in Meditteranean over past 20 years is much more then 7000.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every approach has downsides" does not mean one approach isnt objectively worse than others...

Which approach is better is very difficult to objectively evaluate. There are a vast number of yardsticks you could use, and I can't see two people ever agreeing on which yardstick is the right one to judge a health care system. Since cancer is one of the top quickly fatal medical conditions, I consider the wait to get treated for cancer to be an excellent yardstick for evaluating any health care system. In this rega…

Note I didn't say "better" - I said "worse". For example, there are different voting systems, each that optimize different outcomes. Impossible to agree on the best system because we all think different goals are important. Yet despite this inability to determine the best, First Past the Post is across the board worse than the alternatives. PIck a feature people really want in their voting results, and FPTP is worse at it than any other.

My point being, though, that "every system has its flaws" is a terrible excuse for accepting problems.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#267
post #28

Americans don’t travel. If we did, we wouldn’t buy the myth of American exceptionalism. But then, we are largely becoming a country controlled by global financial interests rather than the population. Money is the deciding factor in our elections, and the most concentrated forms of wealth out there are sovereign wealth funds and large multinational corporations whose executives are largely above the law. Which means…

I hate traveling. I lift weights and going to Europe was the most physically draining experience. Going to a restaurant paying 12 Euros and getting 700 calories of carbs was awful. And having to pay for water... I felt physically terrible. By the end of the trip, I'd order 6 tuna or egg sandwiches. I don't travel because I find learning more interesting than looking at buildings.

Surely you’d take a protein shake after lifting?

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, quality of food varies. No matter where you are that is true, not every restaurant is the same. I’m not sure what you mean about the quality of dairy? US milk, eggs, and cheese are no different than any of the milk, eggs, and cheese of the same variety anywhere else in the world I’ve been.

There is huge variation in Dairy! French Milk (was) terrible, only UHT widely available, though fresh is now quite common. US milk is nothing like as good as British milk for freshness/flavour (though the latter is subjective). US eggs are refrigerated, as salmonella is so prevalent. Not so in UK, where they are guaranteed salmonella free (nowadays 'thanks' to Edwina Curry) And Cheese? Really - I'm fairly sure there…

It feels absurd to have to keep asking WTF people mean when they arbitrarily say x in y is better than x in the US (and let’s be honest, that’s a sign it’s not, you’re just nostalgic), but what is better about British milk? And I swear if you say fresh off a local farm whole milk is better than the skim milk you bought in Walmart that one time I’m going to stab you... we are comparing apples to apples here, not apples to white water that isn’t what your mom served you as a kid.

US eggs are refrigerated, as are those in some EU countries. It’s actually variations in temperature that cause condensation and lead to salmonella, so your whole “guaranteed salmonella free” thing is, at best, crap... as long as they are consistently warm or consistently cold you’re fine regardless. And none of that has anything to do with the quality or taste.

With cheese you finally hit a point. You want Epoisses and can’t find a decent one. That is a fair complaint, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of anything in the US. I want a good rich, sharp, non-waxy (“crap”) cheddar. I also cannot find that anywhere... I’m in Europe. In the US I could find one in any grocery store I walked into.

This is about variety and availability, NOT quality. I dislike that I can’t find a nice cheddar, but I’m not writing off entire countries or continents as having nothing but crap because of it - the rest of the locals obviously don’t want it enough to keep it in stock, so it’s just going to mold before it gets bought. They have plenty of other good cheeses, just not the one I’m looking for.

What differentiates the US from other countries is that you CAN, absolutely, without any doubt what so ever, find what you’re looking for somewhere. Sure Walmart and Safeway don’t have it, but there is a smaller shop or a gourmet chain that does. That... isn’t quite true elsewhere.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#269

> There is a myth of exceptionalism in America that prevents it from looking outward Which is frankly such a common sentiment from every European I’ve ever met that it’s become almost a cliche. Perhaps we are a bit arrogant but at some point don’t you have to realize that maybe you’re doing the exact same thing in reverse? All the things he listed out as being of lower quality are completely subjective. The food is w…

I genuinely suggested that Americans reminded me of Russians to an American once in New York. They were shocked and disgusted. It’s a common sentiment because it’s as close to a fact as a subjective opinion can be.

Re: Why Don't Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#270
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't believe the onus is on the whole to make sure the individual lives a happy life. We just don't have the collectivist culture the Europeans have. I think this is a great thing, and is why America is where most of the innovation, cultural, and political power is. I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and traini…

> I personally have lower taxes, high quality healthcare, and live in an awesome location, and I got all of that through an education and training. That is available to almost every American if they just put in the work. I'm sure that's nice for you personally. From what I've observed, this simply isn't true for many in America, who face desperate struggles despite hard work.

"If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire." - George Monbiot

If you believe in the gospel of meritocracy, "hard work = success", then you'd have to believe the reverse ("poor people are poor because they're lazy."). But this ignores the luck factor (that a lot of people are poor because of bad luck, and that a lot of people are so god damn rich because of good luck). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTDGdKaMDhQ

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