Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 315 posts

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#261

Post by growlist »

morrbo wrote: post #30
colde wrote: post #3

I'm surprised that Britain is even behind this, as they might have been a bit nervous about the US response, considering their ongoing Brexit. This is a great example of how current US foreign policy means a loss of soft power all over the world. I do think that this is a win for world stability though, trading tends to help relations, which helps stops all sort of unpleasantness. Whether this will be enough i don't…

Practically speaking, the UK is completely screwed when it gets to choose who to trade with post-brexit. The deal the US will make with the UK will effectively be too good for the US (US hold all the cards) for the UK to have any form of negotiating power. The US won't "not accept the deal" or "not make a trade deal with the UK" because UK trades with Iran, itt'l be too good for them to pass up. Itt'l be the only thi…

> Practically speaking, the UK is completely screwed when it gets to choose who to trade with post-brexit

Despite the best efforts of whoever to run the country down the UK is and will remain a rich, advanced country, a world leader in many areas, still blessed with ample natural resources, one of the world's most attractive countries for inward investment, a significant tourist destination, and with a population that loves to spend its money making it an attractive marketplace. None of these things are going to change just because France has got it's knickers in a twist about no longer being able to bleed the UK dry to fund the stupid common agricultural policy.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#262

Post by jameslk »

danra wrote: post #58
nkozyra wrote: post #5

Good. I don't know how much longer Americans are going to buy the boogiemen we keep getting fed. Sovereign nations under the the U.S.' thumb, not being able to control their own destiny only works so long as we're complacent. I sense we're growing tired of war for war's sake, leery of ideological battles built for future blowback down the road. We see enough people profiting from these wars to wonder how much global…

> I hope we stop buying in. When a politician tells us a country is evil, we need to start asking for receipts. Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same. I am Israeli and completely left-wing by the way, and believe there are many steps both Israel and the U.S. could take to m…

> Well, there’s the minor issue of Iran’s totalitarian regime consistently announcing their intent to destroy Israel and devestate the U.S.A, and taking actual steps to support the same.

Be wary of the narrative the media feeds you. There is a lot of spin on what is actually said in Iran and what is reported. For example:

https://www.quora.com/Did-Irans-former-president-Ahmadinejad...

This was later revisited by WaPo:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/did-a...

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#263

Post by slededit »

pygy_ wrote: post #256
slededit wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US emits more CO2 while Europe releases far more NOx and other more “traditional” pollutants. The diesel emissions scandal in the US had a European counterpart that was never dealt with. 2018 models are still polluting far above the official limits which themselves are more lax than the US. [1] [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180921140151.h...

The effect of those "other more “traditional” pollutants" is mostly local, whereas global warming and ocean acidification are global.

Ocean acidification is a global problem. NOx smog may seem local but it has large scale effects.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#264

Post by growlist »

louisswiss wrote: post #84
fredley wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> considering their ongoing Brexit One of the big campaigns for Leave was that the EU was dampening our ability to trade with the rest of the World. I guess maybe not then?

Free trade is a socially acceptable excuse Brexit voters can use to mask the real reasons they voted to leave. As is sovereignty.

If you think Leave voters are worried about looking politically correct, I think you haven't met many Leave voters.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#265

Post by growlist »

_b4ut wrote: post #26
colde wrote: post #3

I'm surprised that Britain is even behind this, as they might have been a bit nervous about the US response, considering their ongoing Brexit. This is a great example of how current US foreign policy means a loss of soft power all over the world. I do think that this is a win for world stability though, trading tends to help relations, which helps stops all sort of unpleasantness. Whether this will be enough i don't…

world politics is like a cooperative version of poker where every country is supposed to win occasionally. now trump just decided to just raise all the time and cashing in. but players now realize his hand isn't that strong (no pun intended) most of the time and they will adapt by staying in the game while recoordinating the cooperation. in the end the USA will get a smaller part of the cake than they used to - and t…

To an extent, capital now seems to route around barriers similarly to how the internet routes around network problems.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#266

Post by dakna »

FabHK wrote: post #133
lustysocietyorg wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We, the people, are pretty powerless here. Most US americans have been voting for Democrats or Republicans or not at all for decades. Of course the politics remain the same: Wars and politics that favor the richest. Please, vote for the Green Party or another reasonable party in 2020.

Maybe it's worth it to first reform the political system from a first-past-the-post system to more proportional representation (otherwise, unless I'm mistaken, those votes go pretty much straight to the wastepaper basket (or trash can, in this case)).

This freakonomics episode treats the major parties as a duopoly and gives some insights how the voting system would need to change:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/politics-industry/

Unfortunately to change the law you need voters who vote for a party that is willing to change it even though it came into power under the current law.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#267

Post by bogomipz »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #232
bogomipz wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The current regime is there precisely as a result of the Iranian Revolution" So you are defending you assertion by simply repeating it? You show a complete lack of of understanding of the power structure of Iran and the history of the revolution. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini was appointed to be Supreme Leader after the Iranian Revolution. He used the position to consolidate power and shape the judiciary. There curre…

> You show a complete lack of of understanding of the power structure of Iran and the history of the revolution. No, what you seem to be trying to do is claim that because the regime that is the result of the Revolution did not deliver on all of its promises when the Revolution started, it is somehow a different regime? Politicians often don't fulfill their promises. Does that make them different? Liars, deceptive ma…

>">"No, what you seem to be trying to do is claim that because the regime that is the result of the Revolution did not deliver on all of its promises when the Revolution started, it is somehow a different regime?"

Maybe you should reread your original where you say "the current Iranian regime." The current regime is the result of policies implemented by the Ayatollah after the revolution and implemented via his appointees on Council of Guardians - the body that oversees Parliament. "Current regime" means exactly that the regime as it exists today. And it is a very different regime than what existed in 1979.

>"They're not exactly 'free' countries, are they now? Authoritarian countries would be a better title for you perhaps?"

Please re-read where you stated the "US supports 75% of dictatorship." It has nothing to do with what's "better for me." Your statement is patently false. Let's not move the goal posts. And just to further illustrate this absurdity, Jordan which is on your "list", is neither authoritarian or dictatorial. It's widely considered to be something of a success story of democracy in the Middle East.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#268

Post by growlist »

Zenst wrote: post #221

Kinda ironic, how Britain managed to organise a trade deal for Iran so quickly with EU neibours and yet utterly unable after years to organise its own trade needs.

yeah, I guess it's almost like the EU is cutting off its nose to spite its face.

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#269

Post by growlist »

sadris wrote: post #215
chvid wrote: post #103

I don't understand how that would prevent the US from sanctioning those banks and companies that trades with Iran? Regardless if they traded through the described mechanism.

Correct. The Secretary of State has already said this. You can do business with America. Or do business with Iran. But you can't do business with both.

Beyond mass scale industrial espionage though, what options does the US realistically have if third party countries/trading blocs create a mechanism to hide the trade? Are they going to sanction the EU? Be interesting to see that one play out. It could basically end up with America blacklisting every country outside the US, thus ending up with itself as its only trading partner..

Re: Skirting U.S. sanctions, Europeans launch trade mechanism for Iran

#270

Post by louisswiss »

zimablue wrote: post #231
louisswiss wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A helpful reminder that Britain leaving the EU and Britain getting a 'deal' with the EU are two separate (but related) events. Britain triggered Article 50 and decided to leave the EU. There's no deal necessary. From the EU's point of view (and a legal one), this isn't a negotiation, just a (sometimes less clearly defined) bureaucratic procedure. There is of course the question of what Britain's relationship to the E…

It's not the countries of the European Union's job to care about their historic ally and second largest power remaining stable and friendly in a time of oligarchs and autocracies? Put aside remain/leave/nationality, your statement is nonsensical. No, the behavior of the EU does not align with the interests of its member states, that is the truth. As with Greece, so now with the UK. Crushed by unaccountable committee.

> It's not the countries of the European Union's job to care about their historic ally...

It's not the EU's job.

The EU's priority is its members' interests. As you rightly point out, those interests are probably not well served by alienating the UK.

But that by no means implies that the EU shouldn't be seeking the best possible deal for the EU that the UK will put up with.

> No, the behavior of the EU does not align with the interests of its member states, that is the truth. As with Greece, so now with the UK. Crushed by unaccountable committee.

Interesting argument. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. The behaviour of the UK doesn't align with the interests of Scotland. I assume you believe Scotland should therefore be allowed to leave the UK?

Post reply on HN