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Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

bloomberg.com

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Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#261

Post by nomel »

mlindner wrote: post #233
nomel wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this includes the convenience fee in having to use a supercharge station to recharge your car. If you don't have the ability to charge at home (condo or apartment), the idea of waiting at some energy pump for 30 minutes every morning is the opposite of alluring.

If you don't even understand the basics of electric car ownership you should really do some reading. People who don't have at work charging or at home charging are not the market for electric cars. A few people do, but very few Tesla owners I've heard of actually have neither. If you're buying a $35,000+ car why are you living in an apartment instead of using that towards a down payment on a condo or a house?

> using that towards a down payment on a condo

As I stated, you will have trouble charging at a condo. In the bay area, most new development is condos, and I don't think buying one means you're bad with money.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#262

Post by _ea1k »

iso1337 wrote: post #222
_ea1k wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misestimating. Toyota sells ~1.5 million hybrids (plugin and otherwise) per year. If I'm not mistaken, the average capacity is ~6kwh. That works out to 9,000,000 KWh (9 GWh). Tesla sold about 250,000 cars last year, with an average pack size of at least 70 KWh. That works out to 17,500,000 KWh (17.5 GWh). Obviously, these are estimates, but Tesla is also running at a pace closer to ~320k units for nex…

I think even these estimates of Toyotas battery capacity are too high. Here's my attempt: Prius Prime PHEV: 8.8 kWh Regular Prius: I couldn't find recent numbers, but 1st gen was 1.2 kWh All other hybrids seem to have between 1-2 kWh https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive#High_volt... European PHEV sales were 0.3% of all sales and 0.65% of all hybrids [1] US Prius Prime 2017 sales (I think their only PHEV…

Oh, nice job finding ratios of the PHEV to the rest. I felt like I was probably overestimating, but it was hard to get a feel for how much. I agree that the real number is likely closer to your estimates.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#263

Post by omarforgotpwd »

juhanima wrote: post #165
dmode wrote: post #155

"Automaker sold 63,150 Model 3 in the fourth quarter" - [and this is only in North America] What Tesla has achieved is truly unbelievable and it is kind of hilarious to see HN meltdown and Tesla bashing. To give you a perspective on how much of a gigantic scale this is, BMW only sold 99,000 3/4 series in the US in all on 2017 [1]. Tesla is a carmaker who only sold ~100 vehicles in 2011. It is amazing how much of Tesl…

Nope, that's just the U.S. sales figures for BMW (says so in the link). You need to add the European sales of the 3-series (129,000) and 4-series (64,000) with the China figures (123,000) to get a bit closer to the global figure of 415,000 cars for both 3/4 series.

Yes, but the Model 3 won't start selling in Europe and China until this quarter. Once that happens we can compare sales, but for now US is the only area where you can make a comparison.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#264

Post by davidgould »

gamblor956 wrote: post #66
luckydata wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Competition has been arriving for quite a while though. Having just bought a Tesla, I can tell you I'm starting to appreciate more than just intellectually the huge network of chargers and other infrastructure that company has laid out. It's not perfect but anyone else wanting to play in this market will need the same, and Jaguar is in no position to do it. I don't think anyone at Tesla is losing any sleep over Jagua…

I live in a nice part of LA and I see as many iPace's as Teslas, and the iPace has only been available for about 3 months locally. And the iPace owners are absolutely glowing in their reviews of the car in a way I've never heard Tesla owners get. Indeed--while most Tesla owners I know talk their heads off about the charging network[1], they tend to be defensive about the actual quality of the car itself in ways that…

> While Tesla has a geographically large charging network, it's density is pretty horrible. In DTLA for example, you're 9 miles away from the closest Supercharger

That's sort of the point, the Supercharger network is designed to facilitate long distance travel. So the stations are spread out along highways. The other networks are bunched up in cities. Try using plugshare.com to plan a trip using CCS chargers vs Superchargers. Say San Francisco to Portland, or Denver to Dallas, or LA to New York.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#265

Post by davidgould »

ams6110 wrote: post #244
davidgould wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that 30 minutes of supercharging will add over 200 miles of range to a Tesla, I doubt many people will need to do this every morning.

Still, 30 minutes is a sizable fraction of most people's free time in a given day. Especially compared to 5 minutes needed at a regular gas station.

Mmmm, it only takes 5 minutes if you happen to live at a gas station.

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#266

Post by johnvanommen »

mulmen wrote: post #84
twblalock wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other brands have dealerships all over the country where they could install chargers. I'd say the barrier to doing that is pretty low. For example, if every BMW or Audi dealership had some charging spots for owners of their cars, it would probably have more nationwide coverage than Tesla's Supercharger network. The dealerships are also frequently located in convenient places near major highway exits, etc.

I live in Seattle, east of here there is one BMW dealer on my way home and next closest BMW dealer is in Boise, Idaho. I can’t drive to my home town and visit a dealership. That means an electric BMW would need a range of 1,000-1,200 miles to be remotely comparable to an ICE car or Tesla. Putting universal chargers at existing gas stations or buying an entire brand and converting to charging makes way more sense.

There are five BMW dealerships in Washington, including three within 30 miles of Seattle:

* Seattle

* Bellevue

* Fife

Re: Tesla cuts prices as Model 3 deliveries narrowly miss estimates

#267

Post by johnvanommen »

dmode wrote: post #150
johnvanommen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once Jaguar, Porsche and Audi are able to produce electric cars in quantity, things are going to get interesting. For instance, I was recently looking at the Jaguar I-Pace, and was stunned by how long the wait and how high the markups are. Clearly there's a demand for a $100,000 electric car, but things are going to get difficult for Tesla once the competition arrives.

Chevy Bolt was supposed to end Tesla as well. Didn't really happen, did it ?

Today there was a discussion on HN about "Sears vs Amazon."

And comparing the Tesla Model 3 to a Chevy Bolt is very similar!

For instance, Tesla is prepared to sell their cars at a loss, to gain market share. Amazon had the same strategy twenty years ago. Sears was never willing to do that, and Chevy wasn't going to do that with the Bolt either.

I like the Bolt - it's a very nice car. But the Model 3 seems to offer so much more for the money.

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