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“A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

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Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#261

Post by 0x8BADF00D »

dragonwriter wrote: post #256
0x8BADF00D wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think this understanding is common, but it's totally incorrect and is part of the larger project to get fewer people to vote. Which is what the Founding Fathers intended. The word “democracy” does not exist anywhere in the Constitution or Declaration of Independence. As Ben Franklin put it, we have a republic , if we can keep it. We have done a terrible job at that.

> Which is what the Founding Fathers intended. Even if that was true (and most generalizations about the Founding Father's aren't because they were a diverse group with often diametrically opposed intentions), “what the Founding Father's intended” (other than some role in the legal interpretation of text of laws written by them, including the Constitution) ought not have any special weight.

Fair enough. But you need only look to history for examples to see the ultimate outcome of populism or democracy. It leads either to tyranny or total societal collapse. So I don’t agree with the notion that everyone should vote.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#262

Post by macrael »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #3

If we think that not enough people are voting, the way to solve this is NOT through get-out-the-vote efforts, voter registration drives, and tools like this to make it easier to cast a vote. These are not the bottleneck. Voting may be a duty, but it's one that carries a lot of responsibility. Getting ignorant people to cast poorly-informed votes does not help our society. And I think that people realize this. So when…

Perhaps we could implement some kind of basic tests as a requirement for voting. Like a...literacy test...or something. /s

You are not wrong that we need to make changes to get people more engaged with government, but we also need to make it easier for everyone who wants to vote to vote. The forward march of progress in our country has been measured by the number of people who are allowed to vote. If you don't like how "ignorant people" vote, then start pushing for better public education.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#263

Post by drawkbox »

We trust our financial system and it already has decades of fraud detection. Our voting system should be through something similar with all history, fraud detection, voter verification and more.

Our current voting system is already rife with fraud with little remedy and recounts are difficult, we need to expect fraud and move to a digital system that does have fraud detection in it similar to our financial system. This system can track all your votes and have a paper trail, you can opt out if you want and deliver it in person.

Our current system is such a patchwork of systems it it security by obscurity and broken, recounts are difficult and if we moved to a common system that has records for every vote in every state in a consistent format, then research could detect anomalies and fraud as well.

Digital records that are as secure as financial records, and tracked, are easier to find fraud and recount, no security by obscurity. Noone would trust banks that keep paper records and aren't verifiable anymore today, voting shouldn't be that way either.

We all use the financial systems, credit systems, and trust them. Even with their problems people trust that the amount they have and what they use is recorded correctly in terms of financial data. We should expect the system to be hacked and have fraud detection to match it just like in the financial system. Until we do move to digital voting with fraud detection then our elections will be secure only by obscurity, and lots of games being played with no recourse and lack of trust in possible fraudulent counts and recounts.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#264

Post by dragonwriter »

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #261
dragonwriter wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is what the Founding Fathers intended. Even if that was true (and most generalizations about the Founding Father's aren't because they were a diverse group with often diametrically opposed intentions), “what the Founding Father's intended” (other than some role in the legal interpretation of text of laws written by them, including the Constitution) ought not have any special weight.

Fair enough. But you need only look to history for examples to see the ultimate outcome of populism or democracy. It leads either to tyranny or total societal collapse. So I don’t agree with the notion that everyone should vote.

It's at least equally, if not more, accurate to say “you need only look to history for examples to see the ultimate outcome of limiting franchise, whether de jure or de facto, to a group that views themselves as the right kind of people to rule over everyone else. It leads either to tyranny or total societal collapse, and usually both in one order or the other.” So, I don't agree with the notion that only the “right people” should participate in their government.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#265

Post by ghayes »

lb1lf wrote: post #27
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #2

> The Boston-based company raised $2.2 million earlier this year, helped along by buzzwords such as “biometrics” and “blockchain,” which it claims allows it to secure the voting process. Its app reportedly requires voters to take and upload a picture of their government-issued I.D., along with a selfie-style video of their face, which facial-recognition technology then uses to ensure the person pictured in the I.D. a…

...and it doesn't address one of the key issues with votes being cast in places other than a booth in a polling station where you are alone: Coercion. What's to stop a family member (OK, not much of an issue for overseas military personnel, one would think) or another person from hovering just outside the camera's capture area with a blunt object, ready to -ahem- influence your vote? Granted, this would only affect i…

If you could re-vote as many times as you’d like, then this would largely destroy coercion since the coercer would have to control you or your device during the rest of the voting period. That alone would significantly reduce this risk. For more complex scenarios, you could allow the user to enter his/her PIN backwards which would mean “silently ignore this vote.”

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#267

Post by acdha »

pwg wrote: post #189
acdha wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My $.10 proposal: change Veterans Day to be the 2nd Tuesday in November. Almost no cost, there's a strong “they served so you would have this right” angle, and it'd pair naturally with other civic events.

This suggestion is not likely to go very far. The reason Nov. 11 is Veteran's Day is that it is in honor of the armistice with Germany that formally ended World War I: "major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918, when the Armistice with Germany went into effect." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Day So any attempt to 'move' Veteran's Day will…

I would argue that the number of people who know this is a tiny fraction of the population and, unsettling as it is to contemplate, in the subsequent century we’ve had major wars which are equally important to commemorate so it’s not like a single date can cover all of them.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#268

Post by ascagnel_ »

jermaustin1 wrote: post #162
ctrl-j wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never once worked a job where we got Columbus day off.

Every company I've worked for in NY/NJ has had the day off... except my current gig for an Italian company. Go figure.

NY/NJ has a heavy Italian influence, so the day acts as more of an "Italian Heritage Day" at this point.

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#269

Post by Tsubasachan »

ckastner wrote: post #148
toyg wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, ideologically linking the military and democracy is a horrifically bad idea. The two systems embody completely opposite concepts.

How is democracy the opposite concept to the military? Or was that just poorly phrased?

The first thing any State does is place the military under civilian government control. This is actually a huge part of the Constitution (the Founding Fathers were very clever and they all read Ceasar's biography).

Re: “A Horrifically Bad Idea”: Smartphone Voting Is Coming

#270

Post by philwelch »

acdha wrote: post #267
pwg wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This suggestion is not likely to go very far. The reason Nov. 11 is Veteran's Day is that it is in honor of the armistice with Germany that formally ended World War I: "major hostilities of World War I were formally ended at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month of 1918, when the Armistice with Germany went into effect." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veterans_Day So any attempt to 'move' Veteran's Day will…

I would argue that the number of people who know this is a tiny fraction of the population and, unsettling as it is to contemplate, in the subsequent century we’ve had major wars which are equally important to commemorate so it’s not like a single date can cover all of them.

The First World War was the second most recent major war in American history, and I think the statute of limitations has passed on making V-J Day a national holiday.

Veterans Day/Armistice Day is also one of the few secular national holidays that we share with most Western countries.

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