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Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

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Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#261

Post by desas »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #115
DanBC wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are EU wide shortages of some professions (eg nurses, especially mental health nurses; doctors, especially mental health doctors (and especially paediatric MH doctors)) and these professions take some time to train people.

What? No. There are countless unemployed nurses in Spain, Portugal and Ireland. Ask the NHS how many they bring in every year.

They bring in 1000s of nurses from the EU and 1000s from outside the EU. I'm not sure that it's true to say that they're all unemployed when they're poached though.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#262

Post by NetStrikeForce »

cwilkes wrote: post #195
NetStrikeForce wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job culture in the UK is soooo much better than in Spain. I've worked on both places, so this is first hand experience. In Spain I would get sent to a training, because we needed to have someone certified on that product to get discounts, then the company would ask me to sign a contract to either stay with them at least two more years or pay a 2k fine. The idiots only tried to do this after the training, thinking oth…

> - Don't you have work to do? > - Yep, that's why I'm coming back tomorrow again. Hah, good one. I'm curious in this toxic situation doesn't it just take a few good companies that treat their employees well to change things around? The good engineers will flock there leaving the bad ones at the old companies. Granted that probably means the managers will now try and get 2x the work out of the remainders. Maybe some…

I thought about it a few times. What would it take to turn this around? Surely I can take some capital and start a development company where the people are treated better hence more productive, so I can deliver better products?

The problem is the customer. The customer ends up always being the government (national, regional or local) and they have a higher degree of employees that don't care about quality, so the big software factories (called butchers over there because they sell you almost by weight) can put under payed, under qualified and burned out developers on the project.

I have hopes on all the new tech companies flourishing around the country that are looking outside Spain for their customers. I am hoping they will end up shaping the market for good.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#263

Post by patrickaljord »

SixSigma wrote: post #164

The agriculture sector employs many North African illegal immigrants. Visit the greenhouses of Almeria and see what happens when you take your camera from its bag.

The do so because local people don't want to do these jobs.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#264

Post by cocotino »

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #259
cocotino wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the crisis we got the worst of Romania and Bulgaria, millions of them, literally. A big chunk of them were very problematic people; not even actual slavs, but gypsies, etc. As if Spanish gypsies weren't enough of a problem already. I remember a friend once went to Bucharest for a trip and was puzzled Romanians are whiter than us! https://blackinmadrid.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/the-romanian-... Luckily after the…

I am Spanish. If I say racism in Spain is disgusting and systemic it is because I have seen it. You are probably familiar with things like "Cómo en España en ningún sitio" and how we dismiss other people’s food preferences, cultural habits and religions as those from someone inferior. The problem is that some of you are incapable of acknowledging that because you think you are right and Spain is some sort of chosen b…

>You are probably familiar with things like "Cómo en España en ningún sitio" and how we dismiss other people’s food preferences, cultural habits and religions as those from someone inferior.

You know what, every country does that. And I doubt anybody think this is a "chosen by God country". Before the "como en España en ningún sitio" we have the "Spain is different", the "picaresca", etc. Those are negative values. Spain is a country that is ashamed of itself.

>Just as an example, you use the word gypsy as something bad.

Gypsies are bad. I know a few good gypsies, and you know what? You look at them and you wouldn't even think they are gypsies. By gypsies, we all know what we mean, and most of them are Spanish themselves. As an example: Spain is a big country, with tons of accents (and languages), and gypsies live so secluded from society they have their own accent country-wide.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#266

Post by pille »

knocte wrote: post #243

> Pimentel’s client asked him for list of candidates trained in “Agile” project management techniques for helping companies boost their productivity by using more I.T. systems. The client was offering as much as 200,000 euros ($220,000) a year -- almost 10 times the average salary in Spain. > But such people are thin on the ground in Spain. It takes at least eight months for an experienced software developer to earn…

Yeah, I'd stay far away from anyone who thinks you need 8 months to grasp the concepts of Agile. Sounds like @horse_recruiter is running the talent search.

That ridiculous expectation is probably a symptom of some pretty dysfunctional management in general.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#267

Post by Drdrdrq »

zerr wrote: post #246
crystalmace wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been considering applying to your company, any advice / comments about working for them?

Could you please mention what company you're talking about?

Judging from past comments: https://github.com/Automattic/legalmattic

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#268

Post by saalweachter »

flexie wrote: post #256
vemv wrote: post #29

Spanish dev here, 3 years in the business, been twice a freelancer and twice an employee. My main complaints: - The maximum salary a developer can earn at any given company is almost written in stone - around 36000 euros. Every public job posting will have that figure as the max. When it's higher, they'll water it down in the interview. Why? Probably because they don't have the notion of a 10x programmer at all. We a…

36,000 euro in, say, Valencia, that's close to 100,000 dollars in San Francisco when adjusting for purchasing power. Not great but certainly not that bad either. For someone with three years experience. I know a team of developers south of Valencia who make way more than that. They work out of a mansion with an infinity pool. Doing simple websites. Whereas 36,000 euro in Southern Spain (where the unemployment is high…

The wages for a programmer in Indiana aren't bad in context, either. I still chose to move to New York for a better paying job there.

Why? Well, firstly, it's a real kick in the pants to get paid half what you could elsewhere, even if you're paying rent and eating out for half the price. Secondly, computers, student loans, automobiles, and AWS services cost the same whether I'm in New York or Indiana, so I'd rather get paid twice as much, thank you very much.

It's amazing how often "structural unemployment" is just "we don't want to pay what people want to be paid".

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#269

Post by imaginenore »

raarts wrote: post #189
imaginenore wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same shit in Italy and the Netherlands. I get with very low offers, recruiters are shocked that I bill $100-150 per hour.

I work in the netherlands and I bill $125/hr.

And I'm sure there are people who bill more. The difference is, jobs at these rates are orders of magnitude more common in the US.

Re: Spain Runs Out of Workers with Almost 5M Unemployed

#270

Post by JWLong »

vemv wrote: post #29

Spanish dev here, 3 years in the business, been twice a freelancer and twice an employee. My main complaints: - The maximum salary a developer can earn at any given company is almost written in stone - around 36000 euros. Every public job posting will have that figure as the max. When it's higher, they'll water it down in the interview. Why? Probably because they don't have the notion of a 10x programmer at all. We a…

I found a neat hack for making sure that employees don't leave me like yesterday's lunch: pay above market rate.
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