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Refugees Welcome

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Re: Refugees Welcome

#261

Post by SinomaSo »

theworstshill wrote: post #223
michaelbuddy wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting idea. But the "U.S." isn't giving these countries weapons. Various people from the U.S. may be doing that, I know that U.S. citizens (those of which any refugees would suddenly be living next to) didn't vote to give weapons to Syrian armies. But if you have proof of it (and I'm not saying you don't) you've then got to find out how the deal was made. Also you want to blame the gun sellers and not the gun s…

You're certainly joking, or trolling too hard. This is YC and not tumblr after all where the answer to any and all problems is "white males". However, the situation in the middle east was quantitatively and qualitatively better when it had Saddam, Qaddafi et all. The region had ethnic and religious tensions for most of its existance, the difference is - before the war in Iraq, Afganistan, Lybia and now Syria, there w…

The biggest mistake the US did is dismantling the Iraqi military. All top generals and army officers become jobless over night. Now guess who runs the ISIS intelligence and military operations? yes, the former Bath Iraqi Intelligence and army officers.

Re: Refugees Welcome

#262

Post by cylinder »

jahewson wrote: post #245
theworstshill wrote: post #182

80% of these refugees should be accepted by the US, after all, if you give weaponry to various "free" syrian armies to cause havoc in the region, you should take responsibility to take care of the humanitarian disaster that results. The other 20% - UK, France and Germany, whoever dumped weapons on that region. Unpopular as it is - the middle east was doing much better under strong dictators. They had civilization goi…

Let's at least mention the real culprits: Russia and Iran.

Did Russia and Iran try to overthrow Saddam* and Assad?

* After the 1980s

Re: Refugees Welcome

#263

Post by sp332 »

hoopd wrote: post #258
sp332 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we're really straining ourselves to handle the amount of refugees we are currently taking. That means, wherever the line is, we're not that close to it.

By what measure? If you don't know how to recognize when it's become a problem then it's not meaningful when you say you don't see a problem. What is straining to you? I would describe our education system, our legal system, our prison system and our welfare system as all being currently "strained" so we must have different definitions. (and to the downvoting crew, feel free to explain to me what productive disagreee…

I don't think the strain on any of those things is caused by immigration. If we improved them to make them better for current residents, it would also increase our capacity for immigrants. But I'd see that as just a side effect of fixing broken systems.

Re: Refugees Welcome

#264

Post by cylinder »

tobltobs wrote: post #207
s3nnyy wrote: post #131

>> Only then I realized that the way people live in Switzerland is not something you can take for granted and in the end made me move back. I agree. I lived in Germany for 20 years, now I live in Zurich and can't be any happier. Check out my post "Eight reasons why I moved to Switzerland" https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-t... btw.: Switzerland also takes refugees, but because they want to, n…

> Switzerland also takes refugees But only those with more than 10 Million $ in their pockets. But now seriously, Switzerland is NOT taking any noticeable number of refugees. In the current political situation a suggestion to take refuges would be suicide for every politican.

Switzerland has been taking far more per-capita than other European nations. Understandably they recently tightened.

Re: Refugees Welcome

#265

Post by arrrg »

powertower wrote: post #244
arrrg wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So refugees are to blame for xenophobia, racism and violent attacks on themselves? Stop hitting yourself, eh? That’s absurd, completely and utterly. Basic human rights and human dignity should be on all our minds. Compared to that the problems you name are trivial matters. Oh my god, the obscenely rich Europeans might lose a tiny bit of their living standard, how horrific! That’s arrogance on the ivory tower. (It’s s…

> So refugees are to blame for xenophobia, racism and violent attacks on themselves? Stop hitting yourself, eh? That’s absurd, completely and utterly. You are arguing with yourself as you are the one making that statement. > Basic human rights and human dignity should be on all our minds. Compared to that the problems you name are trivial matters. None of the things I listed, that are being brought in by immigration,…

I don’t think there is any truth at all to what you are saying.

Re: Refugees Welcome

#266

Post by davidw »

powertower wrote: post #260
jahewson wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's at least mention the real culprits: Russia and Iran.

Culprits of what? Russia and Iran are not trying to destabilize and take over the country - by forming, arming, and financing terrorist groups from within and from outside. They did not bring this conflict to Syria, nor the resulting destruction.

One of the reasons I hate these kinds of discussions is that they are so boring and simplistic. The notion that "it's all the US' fault!" seems to always rear its head.

I'm not a fan of a lot of US foreign policy, but people like Assad and Putin are 'not very nice people' to put it mildly, and have done more than their fair share to cause problems in Syria.

Russia has a direct interest in Syria, BTW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_naval_facility_in_Tart...

Re: Refugees Welcome

#267

Post by Kalium »

logfromblammo wrote: post #221
mcmalloc wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't even able to take care of all the poor people that are already here, and you think we can accommodate millions more?

The amount spent on the bombs ($22k) or missiles ($110k) used to [possibly] kill enemy targets could rather easily pay to accommodate a few refugees long enough for them to either assimilate and find jobs or wait out the crisis and return home. All it takes is a commitment to finally throttle the military materiel manufacturing economy--that was ramped up during World War 2--back to a peacetime proportion of the budg…

Friend, I think you'll find that a proposal to deeply restructure whole economies and societies will not be well-received by people reluctant to accept smaller changes.

Have you considered appealing to what your audience is likely to care about, rather than the goals you find appealing?

Re: Refugees Welcome

#268

Post by s3nnyy »

Inthenameofmine wrote: post #227
s3nnyy wrote: post #131

>> Only then I realized that the way people live in Switzerland is not something you can take for granted and in the end made me move back. I agree. I lived in Germany for 20 years, now I live in Zurich and can't be any happier. Check out my post "Eight reasons why I moved to Switzerland" https://medium.com/@iwaninzurich/eight-reasons-why-i-moved-t... btw.: Switzerland also takes refugees, but because they want to, n…

Interesting. Looks like I'm in the exact opposite boat. I'm a Swiss citizen and moved to a developing country (that has huge population outflow atm due to illegal immigration) to live and work. I achieved in 2 years (from scratch, no savings whatsoever) more than I ever could in Switzerland. My standard of living is incredible because of better purchasing power, and life is so much more fulfilling because you can act…

Could you also tell what you did in Switzerland and what you do now in this "developing" country?

Power-distance or empathy to foreigners is no different to Germany, at least in Zurich.

Switzerland can't be that bad as a place for software engineers:

1) Google placed the biggest software engineering office outside the US into Zurich.

2) The ETH is the only place except for Oxford and Cambridge that can compete with top-US schools.

Re: Refugees Welcome

#269

Post by jbssm »

rmxt wrote: post #257
jbssm wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source is here for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Sh... 36% of Muslims living in UK believe if a Muslim converts to another religion they should be punished by death. But I'm sure you will find some way to nitpick out of this and tell me that these Muslims don't count. Right? Also, in case you intellectual honesty doesn't allow you to figure out, these are that Muslims that in the…

Take off the hate goggles and maybe you'll see that your sarcasm is actually true: "these are that Muslims that in their great majority are supposed to be already westernised" == "86.4% of Muslims feel they belong in Britain, slightly more than the 85.9% of Christians" 86.4% sounds like a "great majority" (whatever that means), to me.

Oh yes, they are westernised into 36% of them (the young ones, the ones that mostly were already born here) thinking that whoever leaves the religion of Islam should be killed.

Geez, I seriously wonder what is your concept of NOT westernised? 50%, 70%, 100% of them believing in murder in the name of their religion or what? Please let us know if you actually have a number or if anything fits into your version of "westernised"

Re: Refugees Welcome

#270

Post by jbssm »

rmxt wrote: post #255
jk4930 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkish Muslims (the majority of Muslims in Germany) were polled on the following: 1. Islam is the only true religion: 72% YES 2. There should be a Muslim majority in Germany: 46% YES 3. Want only Muslims as neighbours: 62% YES > http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article108659406/Tuer...

Fair enough, they have strong religious beliefs. So do lots of people. Why does that mean Muslims shouldn't be allowed into a given country? Why should Islam be singled out? Also, apparently from the same survey: "Furthermore, the willingness of Turkish migrants and their descendents to integrate into German society remains high and is climbing. Whereas 70 percent said in 2010 that they want to "absolutely and withou…

Seriously, the complete hypocrisy of your comment is too big to actually be true.

So, we are a bunch of xenophobes because we are concerned about people that clearly have social norms that are against our most basic principles of freedom are entering our countries.

But when 62% of Muslims already living in Germany say they want to live only next to other Muslims then, you don't see a problem there and claim they are perfectly integrated.

Seriously, you took hypocrisy to an all new level with that comment.

If we say: We want to live only next to other people that share the basics of European culture = we are a bunch of racist pigs. If they say: We want to live only next to Muslims = nothing to see here, just perfectly integrated and westernised Muslims.

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