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Wire – Modern Communications Network

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Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#251

Post by graeme »

andor wrote: post #239
graeme wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You forgot Hangouts, which works on Android, iOS, and the desktop. It supports text, voice, and video, just like Wire. Its only negative from my personal viewpoint is no Windows Phone support, but that OS is the punchline of many jokes these days. Have you ever tried to start a Hangout with a non-technical user? It's a nightmare. I do remote tutoring. Skype is easy. Everyone has it, you add the username, and call. H…

If all your students have a Google account and an email address, it's rather easy: 1. Open https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_ to create a new Hangout 2. Copy the permanent link that is shown in the dialog, or enter mail addresses to invite. 3. Students open the link. A login is required to join the Hangout, this could be improved...

Thanks! That's far simpler. Though it should be more obvious that option exists.

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#252

Post by hjst »

sly010 wrote: post #170
Macha wrote: post #161

To contact everyone I know I need: * Skype * XMPP * Hangouts * AIM * YIM * SMS * Facebook * IRC * Viber (which I don't use, because yet another client was too much when all these people had other clients anyway). Another client is just a no go at this stage. I'm still annoyed at Skype blocking both multiple network IM clients I used (imo first, then when they dropped the whole "multiple network" part, IM+).

If Skype allowed that (without having to run the original client), they wouldn't make any money. On a related note, is there any multi network app that supports video?

> On a related note, is there any multi network app that supports video?

Yes, both Pidgin and Empathy support voice and video calling via XMPP. I suspect you'd need to use a "standard" XMPP server though - it wouldn't work over gtalk or facebook chat for instance.

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#253

Post by FreezerburnV »

secfirstmd wrote: post #114

So in the age of Edward Snowden this is all they say about encryption... "Are Messages And Calls Encrypted? Yes. Wire uses industry-standard encryption on all of your Wire messages and calls." "WHAT SECURITY MEASURES DO WE TAKE TO SAFEGUARD YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION? We are concerned about safeguarding the confidentiality of your information. We provide physical, electronic, and procedural safeguards to protect infor…

Unfortunately, even if they DID specifically list out all the security measures that they used, someone would still complain because it isn't completely open source. The previous company I worked for not only had legitimate encryption for anything private we received from the user (e.g.: email passwords) so that nobody at the company could ever read them, but also had some (if I remember correctly) good documentation on the site listing out exactly what we were doing. The founder of the company even commented with the specific technical details when our product was linked to on HN, and people still weren't happy.

While I sympathize with what you're saying, nothing is going to make people who actually care happy with whatever security a company puts in place. Unless that company releases their source code for everyone to see. Which I would hope most people would be reasonable enough to realize why that's usually impractical. (see the previous HN post about the guy who shut down his business and was debating open sourcing his entire codebase, and all the problems he would have had to tackle to do so)

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#254

Post by blueskin_ »

MagicWishMonkey wrote: post #245
emn13 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One hint of whether that they've poorly implemented it is that they didn't care to choose a preexisting algorithm, or they chose a preexisting algorithm with known weaknesses, or that they chose an algorithm with fiddly parameters without addressing that. I'm much more likely to trust if various indicators suggest they're being sane, reasonable and knowledgeable.

Why do you say they didn't care to use a preexisting algorithm? They claim to be using industry standard encryption, that means they are using existing algorithms that have been vetted and proven to be safe (if properly implemented).

Again, see Adobe. They might have theoretically bullshitted 3DES as being 'industry standard', even if a very old standard.

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#255

Post by krick »

I understand it's their business and all, but I don't see why we need one more not-opensource messenger app. As we don't have enough. Sure, somebody will use it, but it's all about marketing now and I only can hope they'll fail. Nothing interesting here.

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#256

Post by davedx »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #156

Am I such an outlier if I use Skype for business, not for leisure? I have clients on three continents and every single one used Skype to communicate about the project. Skype was generally running on every machine as a "watercooler chat"/IRC replacement. Just open groups, give them names and pin them to the sidebar. Done. So I really expected this to be more secure, more portable and LESS designer-driven. Who is even…

Nope, as a freelancer with a few remote clients here and there, I find almost every client uses Skype. Even the big corp I'm currently contracting for uses Skype for interviews and inter-company communications. So do most of our vendors.

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#257

Post by Macha »

e12e wrote: post #223
Macha wrote: post #161

To contact everyone I know I need: * Skype * XMPP * Hangouts * AIM * YIM * SMS * Facebook * IRC * Viber (which I don't use, because yet another client was too much when all these people had other clients anyway). Another client is just a no go at this stage. I'm still annoyed at Skype blocking both multiple network IM clients I used (imo first, then when they dropped the whole "multiple network" part, IM+).

Wow, AIM's not dead? With the stuff happening at Yahoo, one would think they might just go ahead and move to XMPP (and enable server federation for good measure...). BTW: If you have XMPP anyway, you can use that for chat.facebook.com. Shame with Hangouts. But everyone wants their golden silo, I guess.

A bunch of my US friends started using about 6-7 years ago because it would send them texts when there weren't actively signed in. They're still using it.

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#258

Post by sbalea »

hobarrera wrote: post #250
coldtea wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "What we need is another messaging app" said nobody, ever. The usual negative HN top post. I have to disagree. We've moved from irc, to ICQ, to Microsoft Messenger, to ..., to Skype, to (what's hot now), so somehow all those people really DID want another messaging app and even adopted one. > It looks pretty, but this is yet another app in the long list of "Skype killers" or "Voice/video/text" messaging. Most of th…

> >"What we need is another messaging app" said nobody, ever. >The usual negative HN top post. There's a truth to it. This one, like so many others, brings nothing new to the field. So why do we want it? > Most of the Skype killers are either crap or crippled in other ways (e.g. Facetime being Apple only). What's wrong with XMPP/Jabber? We have a weekly post on new IM platforms, but all of seem to have features which…

> What's wrong with XMPP/Jabber?

Nothing, except it is a protocol, not an app. Go build an app based on it that's functionally equivalent to Skype and then we can talk.

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#259

Post by hellbanner »

darklajid wrote: post #248
gurkendoktor wrote: post #156

Am I such an outlier if I use Skype for business, not for leisure? I have clients on three continents and every single one used Skype to communicate about the project. Skype was generally running on every machine as a "watercooler chat"/IRC replacement. Just open groups, give them names and pin them to the sidebar. Done. So I really expected this to be more secure, more portable and LESS designer-driven. Who is even…

Single data point: I open Skype for one occasion: Monday night, gaming with friends that - for the lack of a better term - "don't know better" (I'd prefer TeamSpeak or Mumble for Gaming - or any other voice chat that doesn't require a G+ account really). Skype is slow. Ugly. And worst of all: It shoves ads in my face on multiple levels (popups, banners etc). So far I keep it for this weekly use case, but I hope that…

Your Skype shows ads? I've never seen ads on Skype.

Re: Wire – Modern Communications Network

#260

Post by oddvar »

FreezerburnV wrote: post #253
secfirstmd wrote: post #114

So in the age of Edward Snowden this is all they say about encryption... "Are Messages And Calls Encrypted? Yes. Wire uses industry-standard encryption on all of your Wire messages and calls." "WHAT SECURITY MEASURES DO WE TAKE TO SAFEGUARD YOUR PERSONAL INFORMATION? We are concerned about safeguarding the confidentiality of your information. We provide physical, electronic, and procedural safeguards to protect infor…

Unfortunately, even if they DID specifically list out all the security measures that they used, someone would still complain because it isn't completely open source. The previous company I worked for not only had legitimate encryption for anything private we received from the user (e.g.: email passwords) so that nobody at the company could ever read them, but also had some (if I remember correctly) good documentation…

There is another option - matrix.org is a new open standard for real-time communication (with encryption) in an open, federated ecosystem.

That means you can run your own server and encrypt your own data, and the encrypted data can still be sent to other servers in the federation.

To your point about open source, if something like this can take off it needs to be fully open and transparent, without fees or central data ownership - which is why matrix.org is a non-profit organisation and the standard open source.

(disclaimer: I'm involved with matrix.org)

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