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Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#251

Post by scotty79 »

anonymousDan wrote: post #180
dragonwriter wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The #1 thing to make meetings more efficient is not to have them . Very many meetings, IME, are held for purposes for which a face-to-face meeting is not an efficient tool, and for which decentralized, asynchronous mechanisms like email would serve better.

So what would be your rules of thumb for when meetings are worthwhile?

If two people can't figure out stuff they should ask third to join them. Then you are having worthwhile meeting. Meeting that are not about figuring out stuff or about figuring out stuff that can be figured by two people are not worthwhile except socially. But if you need social meeting why pretend you are doing work?

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#252

Post by bird_in_hand »

Kiro wrote: post #98

Why isn't it just standard to be paid by the hour? A fixed hours-per-week seems backwards.

Some workers are pretty interchangeable. If Sarah can assemble parts at the same rate as Sven, then the employer shouldn't care who does it, right? However, for specialized positions or ones that are knowledge-based, this doesn't work. Sarah is a lawyer who's been working on a case for the past 3 months, so it will take her much less time to complete the next step than Sven, who has been working on something else. So in that case, the employer would be pretty unhappy about Sarah wanting to work 30 hours a week, even if Sven is willing to pick up the extra 10.

Software developers with the same skills working on the same product are generally closer to the former than the latter, but it depends.

The other thing is that there are many fixed costs associated with hiring an employee. They need a desk and office space and computer, they need health insurance/unemployment, you need HR to manage all of this. So it ends up being much more expensive (and complicated) to have two part time employees than one fulltime one. If most benefits were decoupled from employment, a lot (but not all) of these costs go away.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#253

Post by up_and_up »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #200
up_and_up wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha thats hilarious. I currently work for a fully remote company and it's completely the opposite. We do one weekly status meeting which is usually 20-30 mins. Then project planning/troubleshooting/teambuilding meetings as needed usually around 2-4 hours per MONTH. EVERYTHING else is discussed/solved very efficiently via IM. I hope to never work for a company with meetingitus again, big waste of time and resources.

Zapier?

No, but they look like a cool company.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#254

Post by barsonme »

vidarh wrote: post #59
barsonme wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without getting too much into it, it's always dangerous comparing different countries. I'm not trying to discredit you, but at times it can be apples and oranges because the amount of variables is incredible. For example, consider when somebody asks, "Well, $country has light rail that's cheap, punctual, and goes everywhere. Why doesn't the U.S. have it?" They ignore that the U.S. is the fourth largest country in the…

Light rail is typically used for compact urban areas. The US has lots of compact urban areas. And some of them do have light rail. The land area argument is often trotted out by Americans ignoring that there are many other countries with even lower population density, and ignoring that population density varies greatly by area and average population density for the US as a whole is only relevant if we're asking quest…

I understand for urban areas. I was thinking about the country as a whole. Think of the middle of the U.S. -- huge dollar amounts spent on the infrastructure for not many people using it. But I understand your point. I'd be lying if I said I didn't support or never used light rail myself.

edit:

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#255

Post by chrismcb »

claudius wrote: post #118
cabalamat wrote: post #81

A 6-hour workday would be 30 hours/week. If we're going to reduce the working week, then instead of spreading that over 5 days, why not work a 4-day week (7.5 hours/day)? That would reduce commuting congestion by 20%, and make everyone who doesn't like spending an hour a day in a traffic jam happy.

Why would you spend an hour a day in a traffic jam? Is there something wrong with your public transport system?

Yes

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#256

Post by homakov »

diogenescynic wrote: post #250
homakov wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love regular capitalism and hate all forms of socialism.

The thing is, socialism is all over America and people actually like it. I'm guessing even you. For example, the military, public roads, the police, public libraries, public schools, fire departments, postal service, garbage collection, public landfills, the FBI, the polio vaccine (Dr. Salk could have sold his vaccine in the free market and made millions and millions of dollars. Instead he gave it to the federal gove…

This exact "implementation" of socialism doesn't prove it does better job than capitalism would. FYI I'm Russian and you can imagine what communism was (it was hell). No need to remove socialism completely, just keep taxes less and let people work. Look at Singapore.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#257

Post by sportanova »

dalek_cannes wrote: post #9
sportanova wrote: post #5

I hope we start seeing more things like this, especially in the US. Does 6 hours a day maximize happiness / productivity? I don't know. Does 8 hours? It's the custom, but I don't know. I think it's almost impossible that 8 hours is the best number across every industry => vertical => company. I'd love to see more experimentation

8 hours for work, 8 for leisure, 8 for sleep and 2 rest days a week seems reasonable, at least mathematically speaking. If it were up to me, I'd include commuting time in those 8 work hours as well, making the number no more than 7 hours.

I'll need at least 12 hours of sleep :). But seriously, I think including commute time would be smart, except that it could lead to discrimination / resentment against the commuters

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#258

Post by Loughla »

homakov wrote: post #231
Loughla wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem not to understand the depth of that statement. It's not that one company would have excess hours; all of them would. So, you would be free to find a new position. . . at another company with a 60 hour work week. Look at the history of the labor movement. Those in power tended to abuse those that weren't; long hours, unsafe conditions, etc. Now, unless you work in a coal mine or foundry, we can count out unsa…

This is so senseless i dont know how to respond. It is like saying legal guns will increase the crime rate because they can kill. Companies compete to get specialists (look at how many perks average startup or google offers). Low skilled jobs? Who cares about them.

You know, I spent all night pondering your statement, and I came to the conclusion that you're either incredibly sheltered and immature, or a complete ass.

First off, it's not the same. There is no, or very low incentive for gun owners to commit crimes; especially when compared to the possible consequences.

If there are no protections for workers, though, there is every incentive for businesses to abuse their employees. History proves this statement true. That is, of course, unless I'm just not aware of a number of businesses who willingly limited their abuse before the labor movement.

And yes, the average startup and google and other tech sector businesses offer good perks. . . . That is not normal for a majority of careers, you know that, right?

And this, "Low skilled jobs? Who cares about them." Is either one of the most terrible statements I've read on HN, or one of the best trolls I've seen; boy, oh boy, did it get me worked up.

That is a terrible way to live. Do you understand how much of your life relies on low skilled jobs? Do you buy your food from a grocery store? Do you shop for clothes? Do you purchase anything that you don't personally create? At some point, low-skilled workers interacted with the goods you purchase.

The attitude that the only reason people work low-skill jobs is because they aren't smart or capable enough for anything else is very, very immature and incredibly ignorant. Specifically, your attitude that they apparently deserve to be treated worse and (in the context of our conversation) deserve to be abused by their employer because of their low-skilled jobs is awful, just simply awful. You should be ashamed.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#259

Post by justnotsure »

aestra wrote: post #233
justnotsure wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandad worked 14 hours+ shifts in 1950s and 1960s in communistic Poland in a steel mill. Anybody who would refuse would end up in jail or even worse - gulag - for treason. As bad as capitalism is it will never, ever be as bad as communism can be.

Capitalism if done wrong can be just as shitty.

Obvious lie. What in the history of the human kind was worse than Cambodia, Cultural Revolution in China or North Korea today? Nazi Germany? Still had 'socialists' in their party name...

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#260

Post by collyw »

Kiro wrote: post #95
vidarh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it was left up to business, we had 14 hour+ days. It took many decades of extensive strikes and demonstrations, during which dozens of workers were killed, before the 8 hour day became the norm. The US union that is now the AFL-CIO leadership in pushing for the 8 hour day led directly to making May 1st the international day for labor demonstrations, in part in commemoration of the Chicago Haymarket Massacre. If…

Do you hate capitalism?

I would love to see a society with genuine capitalism. One where when banks don't have enough money they fail. Where inefficient businesses are not kept afloat by "emergency low interest rates" for the best part of a decade. When a supermarket doesn't pay a living wage, then the state doesn't give them enough to make up the difference.
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