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The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

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Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#251

Post by briantakita »

Karunamon wrote: post #227
briantakita wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You and everyone else I've asked this question to seem to dance around it. How is this any different than supporting any other kind of anti-equality thing? He has not said anything hateful. In many ways, I think his opinion is not conducive to equality. In fact, the notion of marriage is unequal. It's unequal to people who don't want to get married or are polyamorous. Also, there are many natural inequalities. Ther…

He has not said anything hateful. No, he just gave them money. Given the choice, I'd rather he stand outside of Mozilla's corporate office holding an allcaps sign covered in slurs ala Westboro Baptist than financially support them. At least his personal actions don't contribute to further oppression in that case. doesn't mean he should be the target of a smear campaign What smear campaign? Every criticism of Eich tha…

> Donating $1000 to a hate group is not "behaving badly"?

Prop 8 is a proposition, not a hate group. This redefinition is scary and files a "hate group" as being anyone who disagrees with your position.

Supporting a proposition is his right and it is ok. I don't see his intent as being hateful. Ignorant, but not hate.

> If I have any vitriol at all, it's directed at his defenders and those that want to make him a martyr for "freedom of speech".

That sounds like you hate me now. It also sounds like you hate freedom, sorry to say. I'm aware of the cliché, but you said it.

Funny how the moderates are targeted by extremists.

---

I'm getting into activism myself, so I understand how important this is to you.

All I can say is keep your humanity & honor in the process. Your movement will be better off.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#252

Post by dfc »

anonbanker wrote: post #228
dfc wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what Yagan looks like and my mom has no concept of image based memes. That being said my mother can understand: OKCupid blocks firefox over anti-gay Mozilla CEO That sound bite works, and it works across a lot of demos.

Right. And your mother is on OKCupid, and understood the Firefox message that popped up on her browser. Further, your mother uses Firefox and not whatever is included with her computer. Further, your mother is paying attention to tech news. Can we switch Moms? Yours sounds awesome.

To recap things we know about dfc's mom:

  * knows about OKCupid because her son introduced her to a girl he met
    on OKCupid.

  * knows Firefox because it is "the thing she is supposed to click on
    instead of the internet browser (sic) icon."

  * reads news on websites. This story was all over: bloomberg, usa today,
    nyt, huffpost, time, newsweek, csmonitor, fox news, etc

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#253

Post by pessimizer »

bluntly_said wrote: post #206
jerryr wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, let's take the facts in question off the table and say that there are absolutely no differences between marriage and domestic partnerships besides the name. At best then, Prop 8 kept us "separate but equal". History has shown that doctrine to be discriminatory and oppressive. There's an inherent inequality in my inability to say that I'm married.

And I think the separate but equal problem is a very compelling reason to remove rights from marriage entirely. Codifying religious beliefs into law shouldn't be accepted. Trying to redefine religious beliefs in law stirs up more controversy than it should. Amending the law to force all couples to get the equivalent of a civil unions satisfies both camps. Further, once marriage holds no rights, the government cannot…

I'm entirely against state marriage, religious or otherwise. If you want to pool your finances, form a joint partnership - and feel free to do it with anybody willing to sign the documents. If you want to figure out who gets to visit someone in the hospital, use something else.

Let Jeremy Irons marry his son.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#254

Post by Natsu »

anonbanker wrote: post #241
krainboltgreene wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, "hunt a man down" and "ruin a man's (otherwise impeccable) professional life"? You have a really low bar for using these phrases and it makes your argument that much more ridiculous (and false). None of these things happened and you miss half the context in which similar but less hyperbolic things happened.

Brendan Eich's professional life was impeccable. he had a stellar resume, and was CTO of a successful company. he could've gone anywhere from there. Now, he's thought of in SV as a bigot, despite all his efforts to reverse that opinion. His impeccable professional reputation is ruined. I see no lowering of the bar when staing this fact. Perhaps you could explain why saying he was ruined professionally is false? After…

Just for the record, you can't downvote replies to your own posts.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#255

Post by Karunamon »

briantakita wrote: post #251
Karunamon wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has not said anything hateful. No, he just gave them money. Given the choice, I'd rather he stand outside of Mozilla's corporate office holding an allcaps sign covered in slurs ala Westboro Baptist than financially support them. At least his personal actions don't contribute to further oppression in that case. doesn't mean he should be the target of a smear campaign What smear campaign? Every criticism of Eich tha…

> Donating $1000 to a hate group is not "behaving badly"? Prop 8 is a proposition, not a hate group. This redefinition is scary and files a "hate group" as being anyone who disagrees with your position. Supporting a proposition is his right and it is ok. I don't see his intent as being hateful. Ignorant, but not hate. > If I have any vitriol at all, it's directed at his defenders and those that want to make him a mar…

The political organization that's behind Prop 8 (the people that Eich donated to, since you can't donate to a bill) quacks like a hate group in a number of ways, not least of which is they dehumanize and make fun of LGBTs.

If you have not already, please view that slate.com link I sent you a couple posts ago. You can ignore the text there as it's basically what I've been saying here verbatim, but I would ask you to pay special attention to the videos - they are actual ads that the group put together and which actually aired in California.

Maybe then you'll see why I apply this label - I didn't just arbitrarily dredge it up as the worst possible thing I could think of to call them.

>That sounds like you hate me now.

I find it very puzzling that you say I am practicing all this hatred by saying I find Eich's actions repugnant, and now you're saying I'm practicing hatred toward you by simply having a (remarkably civil and productive) discussion with you.

Yet Eich is the guy who wants people to be second class citizens.

Does. Not. Compute.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#256

Post by Sandman »

dubfan wrote: post #73
Karunamon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a fundamental difference between recognizing that what people do with their lives is their business, and attempting to force them to stop through legislative fiat. Nobody's forcing you to do or not do anything by allowing marriage equality. The same cannot be said of its opponents.

See, the anti-gay-marriage crowd doesn't see it that way. Marriage has historically been a religious ceremony, and by legalizing gay marriage we're codifying what opponents view as an assault on their deeply-held religious beliefs. You might say they are wrong, and you're entitled to say that in our free society. Where my problem comes in is when we try to stamp out any opposing view with the trump card of "bigotry".…

> Marriage has historically been a religious ceremony, and by legalizing gay marriage we're codifying what opponents view as an assault on their deeply-held religious beliefs.

Couldn't the same be said about civil marriage in general? Yet I don't see many religious groups opposing civil marriage between a man and a woman.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#257

Post by crassus »

sparkzilla wrote: post #23

To paraphrase Hunter S Thompson: When everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught.

This is a "leftist singularity", when the least revolutionary half of the population is purged, and then the least revolutionary half of the purgers is purged, ad infinitum. It ends when the most righteous leftist kills the second most righteous leftist, or outside events intervene.

For examples, see French and Communist revolutions.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#258

Post by crassus »

Karunamon wrote: post #42
briantakita wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eich's behavior impacted a hell of a lot more people than the backlash did The backlash affects everybody. It creates a hostile environment where your opinion can cost you your job. That coupled with ever growing levels of transparency means everybody needs to have a politically correct opinion or face consequences. The ends do not justify the means. Also, what does firing Eich achieve for the gay rights movement?…

>It creates a hostile environment where your opinion can cost you your job. It would probably already cost you your job to publicly declare (let alone financially support) similar non-equality views of both blacks and women. Why is this so much worse? Oh no, one more particular flavor of bigotry becomes socially unacceptable. However will I cope. >Also, what does firing Eich achieve for the gay rights movement? An ob…

There needs to be a Godwin's corollary for invoking racism about discussion of issues not involving racism at all. If you can't reason about a political issue without comparing your opponents to Hitler or slave owners, then you probably have a terrible opinion.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#259

Post by anonbanker »

Natsu wrote: post #254
anonbanker wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brendan Eich's professional life was impeccable. he had a stellar resume, and was CTO of a successful company. he could've gone anywhere from there. Now, he's thought of in SV as a bigot, despite all his efforts to reverse that opinion. His impeccable professional reputation is ruined. I see no lowering of the bar when staing this fact. Perhaps you could explain why saying he was ruined professionally is false? After…

Just for the record, you can't downvote replies to your own posts.

Ah. so you would need a sockpuppet account for such a thing.

I retract the original question about downvotes.

Re: The Hypocrisy Of Sam Yagan and OkCupid

#260

Post by [deleted] »

yypark wrote: post #183
pyduan wrote: post #47

What is regrettable in all this is that no one seems to consider the possibility that people may have nuanced views about gay marriage. According to the mob you're either a saint or a bigot, and thus Eich's value as a human being was supposedly entirely determined by this one opinion he voiced in 2008. I'm staunchly in favor of gay marriage, which I consider to be a no-brainer -- but it seems to me the motivations of…

The reaction to Eich is best seen through a lens of human group power dynamics, as it isn't logically consistent with some supposed ideals (civil discourse, etc.). Geeks have a harder time understanding this social acceptability aspect, especially within a given group or tribe. For this particular political question, a "no gay marriage" opinion has passed into the socially unacceptable in the Bay Area tech crowd. I'm…

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