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Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

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Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#251

The other day I was talking with two friends—one programmer, one musician, both of fairly conservative political persuasion—and the topic of “AI data centers” came up. I said something to the effect of, “y'know, all that talk about how they just use all up all the water from wherever they're built is total propaganda nonsense, right?” and both were genuinely taken aback by this statement. As far as they were concerne…

You don't need to put in a lot of effort to convince people that creepy, deceitful, generally unlikable, rich folks are doing things you won't like and are lying to get away with it.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also doesn't necessarily matter if the data centers actually raise electricity rates. Regardless of whether or not they do, you can block their construction and try to horse-trade it for relief on energy prices.

>It also doesn't necessarily matter if the data centers actually raise electricity rates. >Regardless of whether or not they do, you can block their construction and try to horse-trade it for relief on energy prices. So in other words burn the credibility and reputation of whatever you're using for that purpose so you can pull a quick "fuck you got mine" to the tune of several cents per kwh off your bill. That sort o…

As I see it, the AI companies are the ones that started the "fuck you got mine" defense. Look at how they obtained their data to train their models. Look at how they've gone about building their data centers. It's yet another example of how tech companies hurry up to get established with no regards for anything other than getting to a point of being too big to stop.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#253
post #7

No one ever cared about DCs before now. I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. Ironically, There’s enough issues with the DC buildout going on that even with 100% public opinion support it would still be significantly delayed. The behind the meter power generation isn’t going well. There’s only so many gas fired turbines on th…

I made this comment a little bit ago, I'll share it again: I think the biggest change in public sentiment in datacenters is a reaction to the extreme scale they're being deployed at these days. They're really vastly unlike datacenters of the past. The power densities are so much higher, they're so much larger, and they're getting vastly more environmental waivers and tax subsidies than ever before. A quiet, average-s…

> I think the biggest change in public sentiment in datacenters is a reaction to the extreme scale they're being deployed at these days. They're really vastly unlike datacenters of the past. The power densities are so much higher, they're so much larger, and they're getting vastly more environmental waivers and tax subsidies than ever before.

ok now this is something i understand and haven't thought about, thank you. I've visited the stargate construction site in Abilene TX since it's not too far from me (3hrs). The scale is indeed unlike any DC i've ever seen before.

edit: "...howling on-site power generation that got installed without any kind of air quality reviews because they're allegedly "temporary" .." you're talking about XAI's data centers in Memphis right? I don't think that's a fair comparison, that was knocked together in like 100 days. Those generators are on trailers.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Russia has been doing it for decades and it would be foolish to assume China didn't learn from them. Thomas Rid's "Active Measures" covers this in detail, and it's somewhat maddening to read, because it details how much of the civil strife we've experienced that was exacerbated by their actions. https://www.amazon.com/Active-Measures-History-Disinformatio...

How is "Anyone who disagrees with me is a Russian troll" working out for you liberals?

Which do you think involves more cognitive dissonance to work through - liberals accepting the country has problems they might be out of touch with, or reactionaries accepting they've sold the country down the river?

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's truth to what you're saying but I also think there's truth to what people are experiencing and perceiving. A highly power and/or water consumptive data center being installed in a town or city is pretty much a perfect embodiment of people's frustrations. It consumes tons of power and/or water and therefore drives up utility costs for the locals or pollutes the air with diesel exhaust. And it doesn't c…

I've heard talk from some folks telling these people that their concerns about data center water use, power, noise etc. are overblown. Water companies disagree, saying data center water usage in fact is quite significant. Oops. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/jul/21/not-enou...

> In May, a House of Lords report said England faced a 5bn litre a day shortfall for public water supplies by 2055.

> Water UK estimated that datacentres in England use 6.6m litres of drinking water every day.

> England’s current water shortfall is 220m litres more a day than was assumed in water forecasts.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one ever cared about DCs before now. This isn't true. People were starting to mobilize against crypto datacenters in the late 2010s and early 2020s^[1][2], long before the current AI-fueled building frenzy. > I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. It's fairly well documented that this is happening to some degree, but as a…

My country banned all hyperscalers. Has nothing to do with China- I live in a densely populated country that doesn't need the chump change from Google and Microsoft. Ugly giant buildings that take up valuable land and require lots of infrastructure meanwhile providing no jobs are a very bad deal.

Yeah. IMO anyone arguing (explicitly or otherwise) that these facilities don't come with enormous negative externalities for people unlucky enough to live near them is either ignorant or being disingenuous. There is no need to lean on contentious minutiae like the water usage thing to show that this is true.

If AI development has such strategic urgency and importance that this desperate rapid expansion at any cost is reasonably justified on national security grounds, the government should be coordinating access to land and power and making people whole when their communities are impacted. Instead, you see unlucky everyday Americans left holding the bag while datacenter operators trick and bribe their way into building these projects and then run roughshod over regulations (e.g. how many open cycle gas turbines are you permitted to have running in your parking lot, mr. Musk?) because there is nobody willing to enforce them.

Honestly, any attempt to dismiss this all as groundless NIMBYism is unbelievably disgusting and makes me think that China and Russia are not the only parties running influence operations here. I do indeed see a strong push to frame the anti-datacenter position with weak/unsupported points (e.g. water usage) rather than strong and supported points (noise, electricity use, carbon footprint).

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Site selection also isn't very thoughtful. A lot of pre-AI datacenters were placed a good distance away from places where people live, but time to operation seems to be the overwhelming priority now which is pushing them to build right in the middle of or next to developed areas.

I don’t understand why they’re doing this? Is extending the grid to their shiny new DC so expensive they’d rather build on top or right next to housing? Is it the water supply ? I don’t understand why someone would do something so clearly self defeating

Anytime you see someone repeatedly doing a bad thing the reason they're doing it is because they want to do it and there are isn't sufficient push-back or consequences for doing it.

Until a country that is defended by nuclear weapons like France decides to send a few jet fighters to force the private jet carrying someone like Musk or Zuckerberg to land so that they can be arrested, tried, and convicted and forced to spend many years to decades inside a little box with little contact with the outside world this kind of stuff will keep happening.

Honestly, the stuff that the oligarchs are doing now is going to seem minor compared to what they'll be doing a decade or two from now if there's no push back.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#258
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hear and understand those, but why isn't it a regulation or requirements issue? It's a waste of time and money for each town and county to come up with those requirements. If your community puts any limits on the datacenter builder they'll just build it somewhere else, so you might as well save the effort and just say they can't do it.

the US is a republic of states. By design it wastes time and money to allow disagreement, variety, and self-determination of states. > they'll just build it somewhere else Why should we have rights to say they cannot do it somewhere else? It's not a moral issue, it's a tragedy of commons issue or unpriced externality issue.

My point is the town has three options:

1) allow the build

2) develop a set of regulations to ensure the datacenter is a "good neighbor"

3) block the build

2 & 3 have the exact same effect

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Negatives acknowledged, there are huge efficiency upsides to dense human living. Everything becomes smoother, faster, less wasteful. You get a society that leverages economies of scale for everything.

In some areas, density is appropriate, and in some areas it's not. I wish we could talk about housing density and "build more housing" as if there was not one universal solution that worked everywhere and for everyone. Dense urban living is not appropriate in a rural or suburban town. Single family homes are not appropriate in a high-demand urban area. Different people want different things, too. No matter how effici…

>In some areas, density is appropriate, and in some areas it's not.

Indeed, the way we have effectively banned density everywhere is wildly inappropriate. Cities should allow dense development. That is, after all, the whole idea of cities: attain the benefits of agglomeration. Cities rejecting anything other than detached single family houses in most of their footprints is contradictory to their purpose.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#260
post #203
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the average person actually knows anything concrete about them. They're a proxy for peoples' sense of powerlessness about what's going on around them. Skyrocketing electricity prices, the sense that elected officials aren't looking out for their interests, job losses, etc. They're a convenient proxy for many disparate concerns because they represent all of those things in one way or another.

I think AOC made this point easy to understand in a recent hearing.. "ask ... if they [Zuckerberg, Thiel etc] want one of these data centers in their own backyard"

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