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The computer science degree isn’t dead

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Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#251

Post by somenameforme »

tzs wrote: post #224
somenameforme wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're speaking realistically and not idealistically, then the primary point of a degree is as an investment in a job market. You go deep in debt with the aim of getting many times what you invest in return. But in the case of a bad job market, you're investing serious money (especially in modern times) for what may not ultimately pay off. And even if LLMs don't reach their viable potential, they're still likely go…

Only around 1% or less of graduates from top schools (the Ivy League, MIT, Caltech, Stanford, UC Berkeley, UCLA, etc) end up with 6 figures of debt. In the Ivy League about 80% graduate with no debt. At top non-Ivy League schools average debt ranges from about $13k (MIT) to around $30k (CMU). Even when you expand to include all schools instead of just top schools, 6 figure debt is rare. Average is about $27k for publ…

Those numbers are wrong. Here [1] are the latest data from the government. The average debt is $40k across all borrowers for Federal loans. Federal loans are about 90% of all loans, so you can easily bump that up to $45-$50k after also factoring in private loans. And most of that lending is done at predatory rates, even from the government, with the average well above 6% for undergraduate loans, and significantly higher for loans beyond that. So you're looking at $45k debt with compounding interest at 6%+ rates in the average case. And the average case is obviously not people going to higher end and more desirable institutions, where the degree is going to be much more valuable, but the debt is going to be much higher.

The reason debt is low at the most elite institutions is in part because the student body comes from disproportionately wealthy families and in part because most/all of these schools offer tuition free learning and other non-loan assistance for students from "low-income" families. At MIT "low-income" is defined as less than $200k. Any student who's viably able to be accepted to such institutions would be well aware of such things, but 99% aren't - so it's largely just as irrelevant as their debt figures.

[1] - https://studentaid.gov/sites/default/files/fsawg/datacenter/...

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#252

Post by addaon »

webnrrd2k wrote: post #185
jongjong wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes 100%. I was born upper middle class. I have a BIT from a global top 50 University. I understood this after working in cryptocurrency sector in Germany. After I left Australia and moved to Europe, I realized after some time that 'the matrix' had demoted me into a lower social class. I had to work harder for less money and had access to fewer opportunities. Then I joined the crypto sector and the people there seeme…

Re: movies and elite perspectives, I watched They Cloned Tyrone a while ago and it had a solid "hero movie from a lower socioeconomic class" vibe. I enjoyed the perspective shift and I think it might be a good example of your point.

That movie was far better than it had any right to be.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#253

Post by deadbabe »

vanuatu wrote: post #200
deadbabe wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a frank conversation with a hiring manager about it. What he said was even if we hire juniors, juniors using AI are never going to rise to the level of our current seniors who built decades of experience without AI. So basically, today’s juniors are not worth investing in. Until society really sorts itself out with responsibile AI usage in a way that still develops independent professional skills, there is no p…

thats interesting, the HMs where I work love hiring juniors (who pass the bar) because they are so AI-native the more experienced engineers can help with setting guardrails and mentorship, but the juniors come unconstrained by priors on how to use ai in creative ways to solve all sorts of business problems.

That just sounds like a good way to end up with solutions like AI agents for parsing a text instead of a deterministic regex.

Juniors have no advantage over seniors in AI skills.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#254

Post by dag100 »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #27
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would actually be good for us… I never understood why software engineers were so excited about open source and teaching everyone to code. Why aren‘t we more like doctors or lawyers?

Why aren't doctors or lawyers more like us?

Can't really practice medical or legal skills from the comfort of your home on devices everyone has had for 10 years now. Also, unlike computers which must obey every whim of their master, lawyers and doctors deal with humans. Which makes raw skill less important.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#255

Post by LtWorf »

floxy wrote: post #226
LtWorf wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it normal to study mathematics in a computer science bachelor program in USA? That country never ceases to astonish me lol.

Let's check: https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/www-cse-public/ugrad/curr...

That shows what one university out of thousands does? How does this answer the question in any meaningful way?

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#256

Post by mmarq »

mc32 wrote: post #98
anal_reactor wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I do the reverse of that. I dress like shit and when introducing myself I specifically use the word "immigrant" rather than "expat" because signalling high social position attracts people who want something from me but don't offer anything in return.

immigrants are people who tend to stay and don’t have plans to return to their home countries. Expats are temporary immigrants typically paid by their company to move and intend to move back to their home countries once the assignment is over.

“Expat” is how white well-off immigrants expect to be addressed to differentiate themselves from other immigrants.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#257

Post by killingtime74 »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #55
shagie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:... (note: Latest Release: February 4, 2026, based on data from 2024) Yes, this has unemployment computer engineering at #2 with 7.8% and computer science at #5 at 7.0%. Philosophy is at 5.1% unemployment. The next column is also important to look at - the underemployment rate. Is the graduate in a profession that requires the degree. The underemployment rat…

I'm glad you pointed this out because I think the difference is due to philosophy grads being ready and willing to enter the workforce as a welder or an au pair or a restaurant manager, whereas a CS grad is gonna hold out for a CS job. Source: all the B.A. Philosophy grads I know who entered basically any job they could get, often including the trades, and knew during their degree that that would be their path. But w…

I mean I have both arts and tech and it doesn't magically make you more interesting.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#258

Post by bananaflag »

Vegenoid wrote: post #216
fasterik wrote: post #183

Our culture has too much focus on landing a job and not enough focus on becoming the kind of person who can adapt and thrive in any situation. Computer science isn't for everyone, and probably the people going into it for the money should look elsewhere. You should study computer science if you find it intrinsically interesting. If you fall into that category, it will teach you how to think about problems rigorously,…

If a job is well-paying, there will always be many people going into it for the money. High paying and only people who love it do it are pretty much incompatible.

I would have loved to realize this back in high school, I would have gone into a lower paying field.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#259

Post by Suppafly »

Schlagbohrer wrote: post #55
shagie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/research/college-labor-market#--:... (note: Latest Release: February 4, 2026, based on data from 2024) Yes, this has unemployment computer engineering at #2 with 7.8% and computer science at #5 at 7.0%. Philosophy is at 5.1% unemployment. The next column is also important to look at - the underemployment rate. Is the graduate in a profession that requires the degree. The underemployment rat…

I'm glad you pointed this out because I think the difference is due to philosophy grads being ready and willing to enter the workforce as a welder or an au pair or a restaurant manager, whereas a CS grad is gonna hold out for a CS job. Source: all the B.A. Philosophy grads I know who entered basically any job they could get, often including the trades, and knew during their degree that that would be their path. But w…

Isn't a philosophy also a popular pre-law degree? A lot of these sorts of articles neglect to account for the actual reality of how these degrees are used.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#260

Post by ehnto »

platz wrote: post #43
ehnto wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a much smaller extent due to where I live, I noticed this too. From merely the fact that I had a (local economy relative) high paying software job and that I could "make stuff happen" for people with capital or people in the "boys club", I was introduced to an entirely different layer of the city I had no idea about. I noticed how effortlessly the signals transfer and how it all feels very meritocratic, you don't…

what's an example of something you made happen

It just meant building their business for them basically. Back then, mostly eCommerce businesses before the software and supply chains for that were commoditized.

Or smaller scale, if someone's a CTO at a startup, part of their worth is going to be assembling a team who can build stuff, so you become one of the valued contacts.

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