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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

251–260 of 695 posts

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Buy this computer, it's several generations behind and a bunch of stuff doesn't work" is not a ringing endorsement, even if it does work well enough for you.

I still do all my work on an M1 MBP ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That’s wonderful for you and apple.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#252
I have both the Framework 12 and the Framework 13. While I agree that the 12's display is not the best in class, it has one of the nicest touchpads I've ever used. It's hard to describe what makes the difference, but your fingers can glide nearly effortlessly across it. Both my Macbook and the FW13 have touchpads that feel a bit more "sticky".

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#253

I was seduced by Apple Silicon after experiencing the exceptional battery life and performance. Those things are great, as are the screens and the speakers. But I'm still excited about the Framework 12 because I don't love macOS. I don't need an alternative to beat Apple on every line of the spec sheet. I just need them to align with my values, support Linux well, and cross a certain "good enough" threshold. The late…

M-series MacBooks stink, literally. [1] My newest MacBook reeks of strong adhesive from the vents. Googling revealed hundreds of similar complaints, it's allegedly a solvent they use, perhaps flux. I thought it was the battery. Many claim "they all smell like that". Some (insane) people like the smell, I assume they sniffed glue as kids. Unfortunately it's the last one I buy. I won't tolerate a smelly laptop. [1] htt…

weird, we have around 150-160 macbook pros (anything m3/m4/m5) in the office and i never smelled that

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#254
- The Framework is more expensive : Kind of care, but not really if it's worth the money.

- slower (in most cases) : I care about this. Blender needs to render.

- louder (its fan ramps up quite often) : I care about this, it needs to be silent.

- has a pretty poor display : I care about this, I don't want poor screen quality, poor color quality, poor text rendering.

- but it is a touchscreen: could care less about this.

- has a 360° hinge : care even less about this.

- and is more repairable and upgradeable : really don't care about this at all, by the time this laptop needs to be upgraded, i'll just buy a new one anyways since the new parts probably won't work in the old machine.

I'm thinking Apple might just be better at figuring out what specs actually matter, and which specs just make nerds happy but don't actually sell. (except liquid glass, they failed on that.)

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#255

Isnt the reason to by a Framework (or similar) because you would not want to be part of Apple's ecosystem? Why would benchmarks even matter here?

Framework needs an audience bigger than that because mostly people don't think in terms of ecosystem, they think in terms of 'does it do what I want for a cost I want to pay' and Apple wins on this.

Only if they insist on expanding.

For now the audience of disgruntled former Apple customers or just repairability enthusiasts appears to be enough.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#257

The point of the Framework is to run Linux, and not to be part of Apple's ecosystem. I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission, report telemetry to Apple, upload anything to any "cloud" or request that I log into something. If you don't think this is a big deal, wait until an age or identity verification law is passed somewhere, and Apple will enforce it against your will, on the computer that y…

> I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission Does this happen on MacOS? I don’t think I’ve experienced this.

For an MDM managed computer (JAMF I know for sure), it can be configured that way per a company policy. I am not 100% sure of the answer for a computer not managed by JAMF as I have not experienced a forced update while using a non-MDM managed Mac in ~1.5 years of using a pre-owned M1.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really need USB-C displays or Thunderbolt for my use case. The touch ID is easily replaced with a Yubikey. Everything else just works. What is the problem?

Sounds great for you! What about everyone else? Many people prefer to get new devices so that they can be covered by Apple Care. That completely removes Linux as an option because Asahi Linux never supports any of the recent models.

Many people don't care about Linux support in the first place. Generally these two groups are overlapping.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#259

I don't give a shit how fast and cheap the Neo is because I can't install the software I want/need on it or use it how I want.

Such as? Feels like the Neo covers pretty much all the bases: browsers like Chrome, Firefox, and alternatives IDEs like VSCode, IntelliJ, Eclipse open source heavy hitters like QGIS, Blender, Ghostty, even Gimp unix command line tools via HomeBrew, etc commercial suites like MS Office and Adobe

For me it'd be EXWM. I can't run my normal X11 window manager on MacOS.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#260

The point of the Framework is to run Linux, and not to be part of Apple's ecosystem. I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission, report telemetry to Apple, upload anything to any "cloud" or request that I log into something. If you don't think this is a big deal, wait until an age or identity verification law is passed somewhere, and Apple will enforce it against your will, on the computer that y…

> I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission Does this happen on MacOS? I don’t think I’ve experienced this.

I have a 2015 Air running El Capitain, never updated itself.
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