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Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

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Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#251

Post by undeveloper »

Zambyte wrote: post #226
0xTJ wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a group of cells on a plate? What is there here that would be illegal? This isn't any different than growing some rat intestinal lining cells in a petri dish.

How do you source living human brain cells? (Not necessarily trying to make a point, I'm genuinely interested)

there are many "immortal" strains of cells that are mass produced and sold to labs, most notably "HeLa" cells. in this case in particular, "iPSCs" cells are used, sourcing skin cells or blood cells (with informed consent of the patient), and using those differentiated (or "specialized") cells to create pluripotent (or "less specialized") cells that can then be transformed into neurons

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#252

Post by arbitrary_name »

Chris2048 wrote: post #237
invalidusernam3 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you quote only the end, the full sentence is: We cannot discard, for example, than an ant has a greater qualia level than They're saying that since we don't know how to "measure consciousness" we can't be certain that an ant doesn't have more "consciousness" than us. Obviously it seems very unlikely, but we can't be certain

I don't share that interpretation, maybe they clarify what was meant themselves?

fwiw i share the same interpretation as the other commenter.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#253

Post by nurettin »

Chris2048 wrote: post #229
nurettin wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, people get shot/stabbed/"fall off a building by accident" every day and we should be considerate of the feelings of a petri dish.

This is the "There are starving children in Africa, eat your greens" argument. Are discussion about petri dishes diverting relevant resources away from building safety initiatives? Can I be allowed to torture small animals so long as human suffering persists?

No this is the stop playing with your dolls argument. It is rock solid. As for torturing animals, you do you I guess.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#254

Post by rustyhancock »

In these experiments the neurons don't know they are firing a gun and chasing demons.

The task is to produce outputs (movement) to centre an input and then produce an output (shoot). Then the cycle repeats.

Typically the input it receives is increasingly regular as it does better. And irregular to mark a failure which the neurons learn to avoid.

It has no idea that the data can also be rendered as a Doom game.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#255

Post by fgfarben »

lachs2k wrote: post #202
fgfarben wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the first step is to embrace veganism The past 4 billion years of life for prey animals has been "get born, eat, get eaten by a predator." They have never experienced any other environment. Why do we owe them a different one?

For the same reason that we now consider murder, assault and other actions that harm people morally wrong. These have also been a part of life ever since humans or other hominids roamed the earth, we just determined that they are morally wrong later on.

Oh? Are you going to do a citizen's arrest on a wolf for traumatically murdering a deer, thereby violating its right to avoid cruel and unusual punishment?

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#256

Post by fgfarben »

vjerancrnjak wrote: post #169
fgfarben wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we force-breed, torture and kill animals and their children in the millions every day just for the pleasure of consuming meat, eggs and dairy products We do the same thing to plants. Why do you have no qualms about killing plants to eat the food they accumulated for their young? A grain of wheat and a chicken egg are evolutionarily and nutritionally, maybe even ontologically, indistinguishable from one another.

Your “what about plants” argument is such a worn-out trope that you must have seen it before and read a valid explanation of why it makes no sense. Peter Singer has been writing on the topic for decades, including others. What-about-plants needs to fade away.

I am suffering substantially more psychic damage from being forced to watch videos of pig euthanasia at meathouses than any pig has ever suffered from being euthanized at one of those meathouses, because I have 10x the neurons as a pig and therefore e^10 more capacity for pain.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#257

Post by sixothree »

rustyhancock wrote: post #254

In these experiments the neurons don't know they are firing a gun and chasing demons. The task is to produce outputs (movement) to centre an input and then produce an output (shoot). Then the cycle repeats. Typically the input it receives is increasingly regular as it does better. And irregular to mark a failure which the neurons learn to avoid. It has no idea that the data can also be rendered as a Doom game.

Does that mean human brains have neuron "training" feedback?

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#258

Post by withinboredom »

IshKebab wrote: post #187
kdheiwns wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elephants have 3x the neurons of a human. Bees have about a million and they have complex relationships, emotions, and can remember the faces of humans. Neuron counts correspond more to body size than actual cognitive abilities. And brains are pretty complicated in how they're arranged. A large portion of the brain basically serves as an operating system of sorts, just managing breathing, moving, detecting smells, pr…

I don't think it works like that. Most likely high intelligence & consciousness requires both a large number of neurons and wiring them up in a specific way. If you have a small number (200k is tiny) you aren't going to achieve consciousness.

The problem is: you can’t prove it. We have no idea what “conscious” even means. It’s literally why the Turing Test exists.

Re: Living human brain cells play DOOM on a CL1 [video]

#260

Post by kpil »

bspammer wrote: post #191
kpil wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "MMAcevedo" basically nails it: https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

I had a genuine feeling of dread reading that, wow.

It takes some of the fun out of imagining eternal digital life, doesn't it :-)
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