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Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

arstechnica.com

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Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#251

Post by nradov »

ajross wrote: post #242
breve wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But no, your Subaru isn't a meaningful competitor. Tesla is a car company. Every car company is a competitor to Tesla. As a legacy EV manufacturer, Tesla is struggling to compete in the current car market. Tesla's sales have declined for the last two years. It's why they're having to squeeze fewer customers for more revenue.

Clearly I needed to be more precise: Tesla's vehicle autonomy features have no meaningful competition in the consumer auto space, period. Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is flogging some kind of angle, generally a political one. And I say this as someone who despises Musk's politics. But the cars his company makes are way, way, way ahead on this particular feature.

Is that a joke? Tesla's consumer vehicle autonomy features are ahead in some ways but way behind GM and Mercedes-Benz in others. In particular the Mercedes Drive Pilot system is true SAE level 3 where the manufacturer assumes legal liability for vehicle operation. Tesla has nothing like that available to consumers.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#252

Post by davkan »

buggy6257 wrote: post #118
Someone1234 wrote: post #96

A new Tesla, without subscription, now has worse Steering Assist than a $22K Toyota Corolla. Back when Autopilot launched, in consumer cars, it was pretty unique. But the market has moved on significantly, and basic Steering Assist/Full-Speed-Range Automatic Cruise Control, are pretty universal features today.

My 5 year old Subaru has been able to lane keep and auto follow to the point that a 2h drive on the freeway is me tapping the wheel every ten seconds to keep it enabled while I watch for idiots. It has been able to do this since I bought it, and I haven’t paid a dime extra. Car cost 30k.

I find managing the system to be more tiring and stressful than just driving to be honest. I do not like when my vehicle behaves in a way I didn’t anticipate.

Maybe I just need more time with it but, my toyota had adaptive cruise and slammed on the brakes one time and I did not like it. On a one lane highway the car a decent ways in front of me slowed down and started moving into the shoulder to take a right turn into a driveway. As i came up on him he was almost all the way over, just his driver side wheels on the line. I moved to the far side of the lane with plenty of room to clear without slowing down and my toyota slammed on the brakes going from 65 to like 40 and it scared the shit out of me. It was a greater level of surprise and fear than I’d experienced in probably the last 20k miles of driving and was completely avoidable had I been using dumb cruise control.

Driving my mom’s Honda insight with lane assist also made me nervous when I would be near the edge of a lane on purpose and it would move the wheel on its own.

I’m not opposed to fully automated driving, but what I don’t want is to be in a situation where I need to remain alert and responsible for managing a system that does the driving. I’d rather just do the driving myself. I’ve driven for almost 20 years now, some of that professionally, and it’s second nature at this point and doesn’t require active thought outside navigating new routes and finding parking. Managing the system requires more effort for me.

I now drive a standard 33 year old truck and it’s bliss. No software updates, no bs, just a machine that takes my inputs and gets me from A to B. That said, without airbags, crumple zones and abs I’d have to get something more modern if there were children in the picture.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#253

Post by breve »

ajross wrote: post #242
breve wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But no, your Subaru isn't a meaningful competitor. Tesla is a car company. Every car company is a competitor to Tesla. As a legacy EV manufacturer, Tesla is struggling to compete in the current car market. Tesla's sales have declined for the last two years. It's why they're having to squeeze fewer customers for more revenue.

Clearly I needed to be more precise: Tesla's vehicle autonomy features have no meaningful competition in the consumer auto space, period. Anyone who tries to claim otherwise is flogging some kind of angle, generally a political one. And I say this as someone who despises Musk's politics. But the cars his company makes are way, way, way ahead on this particular feature.

And it's just a shame that it's not helping them sell cars and it has never lived up to what Tesla claimed they would deliver?

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#254

Post by therealpygon »

Waterluvian wrote: post #137
buggy6257 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 5 year old Subaru has been able to lane keep and auto follow to the point that a 2h drive on the freeway is me tapping the wheel every ten seconds to keep it enabled while I watch for idiots. It has been able to do this since I bought it, and I haven’t paid a dime extra. Car cost 30k.

I have a 2020 Forester and I've come to describing it as "I no-longer drive on the highway, I manage the car." Sometimes I'll get nervous and take over. But even in stop-and-go traffic, it has behaved perfectly. My only complaint is that there's an over-eager PID loop with lane keeping. If I want to pass a transport truck and want to kind of edge to the left of my lane when doing so, it will keep trying to compensate…

Don’t most of these systems release the lane-keeping when you turn on the turn signal? Does yours not, or do you not signal until you are trying to exit the lane? (Genuinely asking.)

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#255

Post by Waterluvian »

therealpygon wrote: post #254
Waterluvian wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2020 Forester and I've come to describing it as "I no-longer drive on the highway, I manage the car." Sometimes I'll get nervous and take over. But even in stop-and-go traffic, it has behaved perfectly. My only complaint is that there's an over-eager PID loop with lane keeping. If I want to pass a transport truck and want to kind of edge to the left of my lane when doing so, it will keep trying to compensate…

Don’t most of these systems release the lane-keeping when you turn on the turn signal? Does yours not, or do you not signal until you are trying to exit the lane? (Genuinely asking.)

I’m not trying to exit the lane. I’m hugging the left side of my lane as I drive past a transport truck.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#256

Post by drcongo »

buggy6257 wrote: post #118
Someone1234 wrote: post #96

A new Tesla, without subscription, now has worse Steering Assist than a $22K Toyota Corolla. Back when Autopilot launched, in consumer cars, it was pretty unique. But the market has moved on significantly, and basic Steering Assist/Full-Speed-Range Automatic Cruise Control, are pretty universal features today.

My 5 year old Subaru has been able to lane keep and auto follow to the point that a 2h drive on the freeway is me tapping the wheel every ten seconds to keep it enabled while I watch for idiots. It has been able to do this since I bought it, and I haven’t paid a dime extra. Car cost 30k.

My 18 year old Toyota Vellfire does the same.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#257

Post by dylan604 »

wrxd wrote: post #211
dylan604 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you must be really bored with pretty much all the popular tech today then

Not the person you’re responding to but yes, pretty much all of modern tech is awful. The specs are pretty good but then you don’t really own it, you get limitations on what you can use it for, you get rent seeking and walled gardens everywhere. Even if you’re paying you get ads and get tracked. Updates make products worse more often than not. What are you excited about? AI slop?

> What are you excited about? AI slop?

A little credit please?! I don't use AI anything. I code my stuff the old fashioned way with nested if/else statements that make you cry trying to follow along. And damn the coworker that interrupts your debugging asking if you got their email or not.

https://img.devrant.com/devrant/rant/r_55338_NBSDq.jpg

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#258

Post by hobofan »

tencentshill wrote: post #244
square_usual wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only for new cars sold, as they can't take away features that were included in the advertised price for a car when it was sold.

That's true as long a the law is enforced. Which regulator is going to stop them?

Canadian ones?

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#259

Post by Applejinx »

cbsks wrote: post #27
stefan_ wrote: post #6

Is the article confused or will there literally be no lane-keeping without the subscription? Because nowadays every car rental place bottom of the barrel Kia has lane-keeping.

Tesla’s “autosteer” is significantly more advanced than the “lane keeping” feature I’ve seen in rental cars, or my own 2023 Jeep. My understanding is that autosteer will actively keep the car centered in the middle of the lane, while the “lane keeping” I’ve experienced will only adjust the steering when you approach the lane edge, which pin balls you back and forth like a drunk driver.

That would make modern Subaru from I don't know how many years back, 'autosteer'. My Impreza does not behave in the least like 'pinballing', it behaves like it too can drive down the road, but wants to be holding your hand while doing it. This is on some pretty sketchy roads and road conditions, so it won't keep doing it unless it's identified at least one if not two lines on the road.

Seems like Subaru lane assist is considerably better than when it first came out in 2013 or so. I was able to experience it back then and it could have pinballed, certainly wasn't as steady and capable as it is more than ten years of development later.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#260

Post by Applejinx »

mysterydip wrote: post #241
Applejinx wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with mine from last year. I don't tap the wheel, but I treat it as 'co-driving' or like the car has its own somewhat fussy opinions on where to be. If I zoom up on another car at a stop it's capable of freaking out and braking, it follows other cars at a good safe distance, and the lane keeping feels like you're holding the car's hand as it goes along, and its attention is generally better than yours. Works for…

I used to have to do semi-regular 8hr interstate drives, and the reduction in cognitive load and mental fatigue as a result of these aids is amazing.

I appreciate that to the extent that I went into a heavy car payment to be able to have these lane-keeping things. I fully expect the assistance will be able to help me undertake longer drives for exactly that reason.
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