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Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

ruby-lang.org

251–260 of 407 posts

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#251
post #6

This is a fascinating and seemingly unusual development that will look obvious in history. I find “BDFLs” and open source communities so incredibly interesting. Especially in the context of geopolitics and state entities. Linux! This stuff is PHD material for sociology and polisci post-grads and I’m so interested in following the progression of history with these types of things.

I don't think BDFLs are a problem. Nobody questioned, say, guido design of python or matz' design of ruby as such. The issue here is primarily about who controls the ruby ecosystem. Interestingly python also had a somewhat similar discussion in the past; you can see this indirectly if you look at pypi: https://blog.pypi.org/posts/2023-05-25-securing-pypi-with-2f... See that question asked: "Isn't supply chain securit…

> Nobody questioned, say, guido design of python

Not up until the incident that motivated him to resign, anyway.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hostile entity? The entity that has literally hosted them for their entire existence?

Imagine if you opened up your laptop to discover Microsoft windows has locked you out of a your entire machine, because you were writing a novel in RTF and it could be opened in Microsoft Word. Microsoft's executives started posting they "took control of the your machine/the novel to maintain security". - Corporate entity doesn't have copyright over your creative output. Just because word can open and view ("run") yo…

This is a bad analogy. André Arko was a contractor employed by Ruby Central. His employer terminated his contract. He continued to access their server which is literally a crime.

The "maintainers" weren't volunteers. They were paid employees.

Also none of the ones complaining were the original authors of gem nor bundler.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#253
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like BDFLs are akin to the concept of village elders; they're not immune to corruption or scandal, but they often have this beloved status that can paper over a lot of cracks. I think a lot of this is due to how so much is a scandal these days, for better and worse. (I'm obviously going to keep politics as much out of my response as possible.) A few decades ago, people could have political views without ostr…

No, I agree. That said, I think a lot of that particular shift is down to a) increased individualism b) an emphasis on the healing power of personal boundaries and c) the rejection of unity as an overriding good. People are far more happy to cling to the tribe they choose, and the tribe that has their back, over the tribe they were born to. Then, there are those who see that trend as dangerous to society (where, in m…

Clinging to tribes is the opposite of individualism, though, and represents pretty weak rejection of unity.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it won't because I can read the timelines and see what he's omitting. He logged in and changed the password after the board emailed him and told him his services were terminated. That includes/specifically mentions his on-call services. His response claims only silence from the board and that he was just performing his on-call duties. I've been a corporate stooge for 25 years or so now. On call duties are one of…

Notice how this was taking over a GitHub repository from an entire team of maintainers, through deceit ; and now we are all a few weeks in and you have seemingly accepted the narrative that this is now one bad apple justifies every action taken before and since, with no questions answered, with a wave of inconsistencies (it's about the money/no, the treasurer is wrong it's not about the money!) , etc.

No, it's not. I haven't weighed in on that at all in this thread. This thread is very specifically about Andre Arko's credibility and the credibility of projects that associate with him.

Regardless of what Ruby Central did, his own actions warrant every bit of criticism he's getting. Stop trying to redirect the narrative. There are other threads where that discussion is happening.

You can view Ruby Central as being in the wrong all you want and I won't argue with you, but that doesn't mean Arko is not-wrong as well. It's not zero-sum.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think because of this, which started this whole thing > Shopify demanded that Ruby Central take full control of the RubyGems https://joel.drapper.me/p/rubygems-takeover

This isn't true according to this article: https://www.404media.co/how-ruby-went-off-the-rails/ . Joel has a terrible habit of not citing his sources so I'm not sure if the post in question is the same but this seems to nullify that argument. TBF I do think there was pressure from Shopify to get compliance and security in order but saying "Shopify demanded that Ruby Central take full control of the RubyGems" is just…

Ruby Central is making legal threats to its critics, so I hope you can see why people don’t feel safe to come forward on the record.

I can tell you that two people with direct knowledge of the situation told me that Shopify demanded that Ruby Central take full control of the RubyGems GitHub organisation and packages.

You can believe that I am lying if you want. But I can’t directly cite my sources in this case.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#256

Other than personal preference, are there any features that make Ruby worth considering for new apps? As a user, my experience with gems hasn't been great. I don't know any Ruby, I'm just asking out of curiosity.

I’ve been writing Ruby profesionally for over a decade and while the writing has been on the wall for almost the entire time, it’s more certain than ever that Ruby is on its last legs.

Big legacy companies who have invested heavily into Ruby cannot switch but every shop I’ve been at often started new services in non-Ruby (mostly Go but have seen plenty of Node/TS as well or Rust for that matter).

If I were to start a new app Ruby would be far from my first choice and the biggest reason are types. After being in the weeds of big Rails apps while also working with Go/Ts/typed Python, Ruby seems very fragile in big codebases. Sorbet is also not enough.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#258
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "No child left behind" is logically the same as "no child gets ahead" If by both statements you mean "all children must be in exactly the same position", yes ... but that's a wilfully obtuse interpretation.

It seems to be to be literal rather than obtuse to observe that it is necessary for some children to fall behind in order for others to get ahead. The slogan on its face is a wish for equality of outcome. But it's catchier than ”no child failing to meet minimum standards”.

Have you ever gone hiking? Did not leaving anyone behind mean that nobody could hike ahead of the rest?

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase has been weaponized in the past many times. Some figures in the community are almost as far from "nice" as possible, but you're not allowed to call that out, because "it's not nice".

> but you're not allowed to call that out, because "it's not nice". I don't know about the Ruby community, but I've seen this sort of complaint made about many other online spaces (including HN) and my general finding is that it simply isn't true. The problem is that for a proper call-out, both form and content matter, and most people in a mindset to make call-outs don't seem very interested in norms surrounding eith…

Try calling out Python's inner circle politely while they are openly rude to you. You do know that you also have keep up the pretense of Kim Yong Un as a glorious and benevolent leader even if he imprisoned some of your relatives. This is a response to your generalization, I do not know anything about Ruby politics.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#260

this is good and I hope this puts a lot of the drama in the rearview mirror. younger developers coming across Ruby must be like "wtf" about this situation. very peculiar to have these projects so politicised and I say that to the people that "try and keep politics out" (DHH) more than anyone. making your politics known and then being like "but you're not allowed to have an opinion on it" is't cute or clever. it's chi…

> making your politics known and then being like "but you're not allowed to have an opinion on it"

As far as I can tell, this doesn't fairly reflect what actually happened. Ruby users were free to keep their own political views to their own blogs, just as DHH does. Reading world dot hey dot com slash dhh is not in any way required in order to use Ruby, participate in the development of Ruby or anything else along those lines.

There are a lot of prominent developers in the Python community whose politics I strongly disagree with. I got banned from the main discussion forum as a result of objecting to hidden Code of Conduct enforcement principles which (in my view) attempted to bring (many of) those politics in through the back door. (And in the process of getting into that meta argument, and doing research, I encountered several previous unpleasant incidents on the forum and on the mailing list that preceded it.)

But I would never start arguments with people in that space over things they wrote on their blogs. I would not go onto, say, the CPython issue tracker to complain about how certain people needed to be removed from the project because of things they said in their own spaces (like we saw with, for example, Opalgate). If I wanted to talk about someone else's politics — or my own — I would and could use my own blog for that.

The mere fact of people knowing DHH's politics emphatically does not politicize Ruby, Rails or any related project. To the extent that Python development has become politicized, that's a consequence of actual enacted policy, not the political beliefs of steering committee members, PSF board members etc. DHH putting this content on his blog was part of the effort to have it not in the workplace. And, in point of fact, that does keep it out of 37Signals board rooms.

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