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Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

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Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#251

Post by pessimizer »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #208
kayodelycaon wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. A lot of people won't go to a doctor in the united states 2. They may be so used to pain they don't think to mention it. 3. A lot of people lie to their doctors for one reason or another.

In the US there’s also deep religious influence that paints suffering as virtue that’s been exploited by capitalists to establish a norm of pushing through the pain and continuing to work instead of taking a break to figure out what the root cause is and address it. Some also just don’t have a choice, because taking time off means not getting paid which means losing a roof over their head.

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Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#252

Post by s5300 »

protonbob wrote: post #118
syntaxing wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the alternative? Pregnant people are people too. They can’t take Ibuprofen, or opioids, or even Tylenol now.

Yeah my wife is also pregnant and sometimes it is really tough on her but she doesn't use any medication other than baby aspirin for blood pressure. The alternative is exercise, anti-inflammatory foods, and also realizing that it isn't just your body anymore and you can't hurt somebody else's chances for a very small amount of pain relief.

[dead]

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#253

Post by beefnugs »

kosma wrote: post #164

There is research correlating autism and mothers taking certain medications (painkillers, antidepressants). Since autism is hereditary, there is a significant chance that these mothers are autistic too. Autistic people have a vastly high risk of depression, and often have unusual pain thresholds, requiring more painkillers. I would not be surprised of the correlation was real, but the direction of action was reversed…

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Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#254

Post by jrflowers »

johnisgood wrote: post #237
jrflowers wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only side-effect is euphoria. Please do not mention respiratory depression here, that is a non-issue I like this point because it is complete gibberish. If you simply do not mention the side effect that makes a drug lethal, it sounds a lot like the drug does not have lethal side effects. Obviously we cannot do that with acetaminophen though, we must talk about hepatoxicity when it comes to that drug. On the one…

You misunderstood me, then. Therapeutic doses of opiates do not cause respiratory depression, overdoses do, similarly to how acetaminophen overdoses cause hepatotoxicity, except this is not true, because regular consumption of acetaminophen causes hepatotoxicity, too, whereas opiates, when taken as prescribed, do not cause respiratory depression, in case of opiates, ONLY overdoses do, and therein lies the huge differ…

Oh I know that you’re correct, your phrasing was just hilarious.

Under the caveats of a competent physician and a completely med-compliant patient, opiates are perfectly safe. Those are enormous caveats though, given the history and prevalence of incompetent physicians and noncompliant patients (at least in the US).

Generally if you see someone complaining about opiates being dangerous, they’re likely factoring in opiates as things that exist in the context of society rather than a strictly clinical context. You can’t really use the reasoning of one context to dispute the other, it looks silly because you have to say stuff like “ignore all the deaths and the mechanism of those deaths”

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#255

Post by johnisgood »

nkrisc wrote: post #240
johnisgood wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We all know about opiates No, I do not think we do, because it causes none of the side-effects associated with NSAIDs, and it is even safer than acetaminophen, i.e. there is no risk of hepatotoxicity whatsoever. The only side-effect is euphoria. Please do not mention respiratory depression here, that is a non-issue, it matters as so much as liver failure matters with acetaminophen overdoses. Opiates are safer than…

> The only side-effect is euphoria. > … > the problem is with […] people misusing / abusing them. I think these two facts are inextricably linked, and is what makes them indirectly dangerous for some people.

I do not disagree.

Ultimately, it is "pick your poison[1]".

[1] Or others will pick it for you (control, regulation, whatever). You said "some people", which is true. I do not experience euphoria from opiates and I am sure I am not alone with this. In my case it is a blessing because I do have an addictive personality. Some other people do not get psychologically addicted to opiates despite euphoria. There is a great study, I think if you search for "rat park study", you can find it. The whole topic is complicated anyways, so I will just say that yeah, you are right, generally speaking.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#256

Post by [deleted] »

Refreeze5224 wrote: post #2

If RFK Jr says it's true, that's how I know it isn't. They go to great lengths to point out they're "using gold-standard science", which also makes me certain they aren't. They can't be, because none of this is about autism or science, it's about pushing their political agenda.

[deleted]

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#257

Post by [deleted] »

crooked-v wrote: post #244
paulvnickerson wrote: post #225

Here's the relevant study from earlier this year: https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/using-acetaminophen-during-pre... It's a meta-analysis that considered a bunch of individual studies, their effect size, and their quality. It claims that Tylenol use has increased alongside a 20-fold increase in autism rates, suggesting causation, and recommends immediate efforts to reduce Tylenol use during pregnancy. One objection that…

I'm extremely suspicious of anything that looks at 'an increase in autism rates' without considering the same factors that have gone into there being 'more' left-handed people over the past 50 years or so. There are a lot of people in the past who 'weren't left handed' because they were punished as children if they showed left-handed behavior, and that's still a whole lot less stigmatized than autism.

[deleted]

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#258

Post by albedoa »

jrflowers wrote: post #254
johnisgood wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood me, then. Therapeutic doses of opiates do not cause respiratory depression, overdoses do, similarly to how acetaminophen overdoses cause hepatotoxicity, except this is not true, because regular consumption of acetaminophen causes hepatotoxicity, too, whereas opiates, when taken as prescribed, do not cause respiratory depression, in case of opiates, ONLY overdoses do, and therein lies the huge differ…

Oh I know that you’re correct, your phrasing was just hilarious. Under the caveats of a competent physician and a completely med-compliant patient, opiates are perfectly safe. Those are enormous caveats though, given the history and prevalence of incompetent physicians and noncompliant patients (at least in the US). Generally if you see someone complaining about opiates being dangerous, they’re likely factoring in op…

I appreciate your sensible and articulate responses here.

Re: Kenvue stock drops on report RFK Jr will link autism to Tylenol during pregnancy

#259

Post by Hikikomori »

docstryder wrote: post #75

It is the safest painkiller currently available. Ibuprofen can cause gut bleeding and renal issues if overdosed on. We all know about opiates. Some facts - typical adult dose is 1g. Max suggested cap on the drug label is 3g per day (about 6 pills at usual 500mg dose). You need to take 10g (20 pills) to be at real risk of hepatotoxicity. So 10 times the typical dose is when you have overdose effects. (basically 20 pil…

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