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Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

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Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#251

Post by shafoshaf »

digging wrote: post #149
erulabs wrote: post #128

It’s interesting to me that we continue to see such pressure on video and world generation, despite the fact that for years now we’ve gotten games and movies that have beautiful worlds filled with lousy, limited, poorly written stories. Star Wars movies have looked phenomenal for a decade, full of bland stories we’ve all heard a thousand times. Are there any game developers working on infinite story games? I don’t ca…

I think that's a bit of a trap. It's not impossible, but by default we should expect it to make games less fun . The better you make this infinite narrative generator, the more complicated the world gets and the less compelling it gets to actually interact with any one story. Stories thrive by setting their own context. They should feel important to the viewer. An open world with infinite stories can't make every sto…

I actually find the same issue with prequels, especially for the ones that really hit a chord (like the original Star Wars). After knowing what is going to happen in those stories, I just can't get invested in a character who I know either makes it for sure, dies before getting to the "main" story, or doesn't matter because they don't have any connection to my canon of the plot arc. Same-universe spins-offs fit this for me as well.

OTOH, lots of games come with DLC that add new stories with the same mechanics. There might be some additions or changes, but if you really like the mechanics, you can try it with a different plot. Remnant II has sucked a ton of my time because of that.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#252

Post by singularity2001 »

jjice wrote: post #2

I don't understand this space very well, but this seems incredible. Something I find interesting about generative AI is how it adds a huge layer of flexibility, but at the cost of lots of computation, while a very narrow set of constraints (a traditional program) is comparatively incredibly efficient. If someone spent a ton of time building out something simple in Unity, they could get the same thing running with a s…

Makes me wonder if there's any company which is trying to train a model to produce three D worlds within Unity (not as a video like oasis).

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#253

Post by lacoolj »

OpenAI launches Sora (quite a while ago now), Google needs to fire back with something else groundbreaking.

I love the advancement of the tech but this still looks very young and I'd be curious what the underlying output code looks like (how well it's formatted, documented, organized, optimized, etc.)

Also, this seems oddly related to the recent post from WorldLabs https://www.worldlabs.ai/blog. Wonder if this was timed to compete directly and overtake the related news cycle.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#254

Post by latchkey »

wongarsu wrote: post #213
niceice wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any estimates of how much one of these cost to generate and keep a minute of context? Secondly, any estimate of how much the price could fall in 5-10 years?

Oasis (the Minecraft world model) can serve about 5 players on 8 H100 in real-time at 20fps in 360p. This is a much more capable model with two orders of magnitude more context. They pretty much say it can't be played real-time, which I read as they generate less than 15fps@240p on 8 GPUs. Probably why they talk so much about using it for AI training and evaluation rather than human use. There is a distilled version…

Hey! I'd love to know how this performs on 8xMI300x in comparison. Reach out to me?

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#255

Post by moffkalast »

refulgentis wrote: post #186
velcrovan wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very curious about this. How do you benchmark them?

Good Q: this is my technically-unlaunched app site, full deets are here. https://telosnex.com/compare/ (excuse the marketing, scroll to technical details) Context / tl;dr: - I'm making a xplatform app, easiest way to think about it is "what if Perplexity had scripts and search was just a `script` that could be customized", and the AI provider is an abstraction that you can pick, either the bigs via API, or run locall…

That's an interesting benchmark, have you tested QwQ with it yet? Would be interesting to see how well it stacks up since RAG analysis should be fairly up its alley. Might actually do better than 4o.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#256

Post by programd »

miltonlost wrote: post #155
foolfoolz wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we have reliable infinite story generation in PvP multiplayer. if the matchup is fair, every game can be different and exciting. see chess

is PvP multiplayer considered a "story"? Is a football game a "story"? I guess if all you consider for story is "things happen", then a PvP match can be a story, but that's stretching what I would consider "story" for a game. That is the story of the match, but it's not in and of itself a plot story.

> is PvP multiplayer considered a "story"?

Consider EVE Online. The stories it generates are Shakespearean and I defy anyone to argue that they have no plot.

I would go further and predict that stories generated by sufficiently advanced AI can explore much more interesting story landscapes because they need not be bound by the limitations of human experience. Consider what stories can be generated by an AI which groks mathematics humans don't yet fully understand?

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#257

Post by whiplash451 »

vessenes wrote: post #4

This is.. super impressive. I'd like to know how large this model is. I note that the first thing they have it do is talk to agents who can control the world gen; geez - even robots get to play video games while we work. That said; I cannot find any: - architecture explanation - code - technical details - API access information Feels very DeepMind / 2015, and that's a bummer. I think the point of the "we have no moat…

This kind of demo is probably great for hiring top talents: come work here, we have the best models and you'll have your name on the best papers.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#258

Post by mistercheph »

xnx wrote: post #139
auggierose wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not nearly as good. I tried the free trial and cancelled it before it was over.

Could definitely be different based on use case. I wonder what causes the negative Gemini sentiment here to be so different from the Leaderboard results at https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard

Most people seem to form and quickly calcify their opinions about LLM's based on a really small sample of initial uses.

In my experience, all of the leading edge models fall over in the same ways that people are mentioning here as particularly frustrating with Gemini(s), it is just a matter of probability, I tend to sample multiple models and multiple formulations when I have a question, and sometimes you hit the "jackpot" where the particular sequence of input tokens have pushed one model to exactly the right zone to start printing the tokens I want.

Re: Genie 2: A large-scale foundation world model

#260

Post by whiplash451 »

lacoolj wrote: post #253

OpenAI launches Sora (quite a while ago now), Google needs to fire back with something else groundbreaking. I love the advancement of the tech but this still looks very young and I'd be curious what the underlying output code looks like (how well it's formatted, documented, organized, optimized, etc.) Also, this seems oddly related to the recent post from WorldLabs https://www.worldlabs.ai/blog . Wonder if this was t…

I also find the timing vs World Labs demo disturbing.
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