New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike • Hacker News Board

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#251

Post by ben_w » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:28 PM UTC

lordgrenville wrote: post #171

gruez wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. False. $45k in 2005 is only $73k today, when adjusted for inflation[1]. Even if you use the most generous interpretation of "2000s" to mean 2000, that's only $82k. [1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

And median wage in NYC is $74k (according to Google). Sure, Manhattan is different, tech salaries are different, etc. I'm not claiming that these specific workers should/shouldn't be paid more, just that it's really tone-deaf to claim that you can't live on <$100k, when more than half of New Yorkers do.

I personally could live off less than €1k/month for everything, before buying a house that reduced my costs by around €400/month.

Just because it's possible, doesn't mean most are willing to take the set of preferences in my head that allows me to be so cheap and rewire their own brains like that.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#252

Post by reaperducer » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:28 PM UTC

dartos wrote: post #234

impish9208 wrote: post #80

From the WSJ’s reporting on this: > Most employees in the tech union receive pay of more than $100,000, and average compensation, including bonus and restricted stock units, is $190,000, according to a Times spokeswoman. That figure is an average of $40,000 more than members of the Times’s journalist union, she said. > Times leaders have also bristled at the nature of some of the guild’s requests. The union previousl…

The 2nd quote is kind of funny, but the first one isn’t. Tech generates more money than the Times. It makes sense that the employees should be paid to reflect that. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with high paid workers striking for even higher pay. It’s not like the suits don’t hoard bonuses for themselves.

Tech generates more money than the Times.

It's the journalists that create the content for the tech end. Without them, there would be no Times tech employees.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#253

Post by richwater » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:29 PM UTC

dbalatero wrote: post #240

thefourthchime wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the issue is that it comes off as egregiously woke.

It's woke to grieve important members of your household? You don't think that's a little reactionary?

pets aren't people

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#254

Post by ramesh31 » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:30 PM UTC

mym1990 wrote: post #247

ramesh31 wrote: post #195

The time to do this was 10 years ago. Best of luck. Half of these jobs won't exist in a couple years.

10 years ago was a very different time...

>10 years ago was a very different time...

Indeed. When tech workers actually had some bargaining power. The rise of remote work, AI, and the flooding of the industry with bootcamp and CS grads has changed everything. We'll probably look back at the last 20 years as a golden age akin to the postwar manufacturing boom in the US, where a single person could reasonably provide for a family.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#255

Post by adolph » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:30 PM UTC

7thpower wrote: post #10

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #2

Gift link: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/04/business/media/new-york-t... https://archive.ph/f9gP0

You are doing god’s work. Also, fyi for others. Many public libraries have NYT daily access codes you can use for free. It’s a bit of a pain to have to renew each day you want to read NYT but is still great to have. Having a gift link is even more convenient.

Thanks for mentioning that! One of my libraries does a 3 day code. It looks reasonably insecure and scriptable to fetch since it is hard coded as a hidden element in the page that opens the NYT page upon successful login.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#256

Post by baron816 » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:31 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #146

stego-tech wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I see people critique those numbers as being “too high”, or demands for additional compensation “unreasonable”, I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. Truth be told, for the present cost of living in the Northeast in general, you’re looking at a family income of $300k to be “comfor…

>I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. False. $45k in 2005 is only $73k today, when adjusted for inflation[1]. Even if you use the most generous interpretation of "2000s" to mean 2000, that's only $82k. [1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

The thing you always need to keep in mind about CPI is that it’s a weighted average for the ENTIRE COUNTRY. Like, retirees in Florida who own their own homes have a very different relationship with prices than young renters in NYC. It really only makes sense to use CPI and other inflation figures when you’re talking about the whole country.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#257

Post by interludead » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:31 PM UTC

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #147

impish9208 wrote: post #80

From the WSJ’s reporting on this: > Most employees in the tech union receive pay of more than $100,000, and average compensation, including bonus and restricted stock units, is $190,000, according to a Times spokeswoman. That figure is an average of $40,000 more than members of the Times’s journalist union, she said. > Times leaders have also bristled at the nature of some of the guild’s requests. The union previousl…

People will laugh at it, but pet bereavement should absolutely be a thing. The saddest I've ever been in my life was when my dog died. Perhaps seven days is a bit much, but when you go to the bargaining table you don't start with what you want, you start past that point then negotiate down.

Absolutely, pet bereavement should be taken seriously. Losing a pet can be one of the most devastating experiences, often comparable to losing a close family member. Pets are part of our daily lives, routines, and emotional support systems

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#258

Post by AzzyHN » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:31 PM UTC

bwestergard wrote: post #3

I am also a member of the union at NPR, on the subway headed to the picket line in solidarity right now. Happy to answer any questions. I encourage everyone to respect the picket line and get your news elsewhere until the workers get a deal. The Times Workers are holding the line against arbitrary return to office mandates and for Just Cause protections. The vast majority of HN consists of developers, designers, QA,…

I appreciate you for joining in solidarity.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#259

Post by adolph » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

pennomi wrote: post #183

chis wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An an American it's hard for me to imagine how companies could ever work with universal protections from firing at will. What if you're running a painting business, and there's a downturn in construction. Do you just have to pay people to do nothing, since they haven't done anything wrong and aren't allowed to be fired? Or what if a large company needs to make a strategic pivot and fire some employees to hire others…

There are usually provisions for firing people due to financial hardship or having too few contracts. The employer must declare the reason, but if it’s found out that they lied, there is an avenue for the worker to get compensated.

Sounds like a recipe for permanent lawyer employment.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#260

Post by smachiz » Mon, Nov 04, 2024, 4:32 PM UTC

cbhl wrote: post #242

gruez wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. False. $45k in 2005 is only $73k today, when adjusted for inflation[1]. Even if you use the most generous interpretation of "2000s" to mean 2000, that's only $82k. [1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

The more I stare at this the more I think that using official inflation numbers / using the official CPI is wrong -- these baskets combine recreation and technology being nearly -50% (TVs can be had today for $300, whereas they used to cost $500 in 1995 dollars), assume you only buy new cars (only up ~25% since 2000, but used cars are now almost as expensive as new whereas they used to be available for half the price…

that's a pretty localized in time issue re: used cars. There's still covid supply issues being felt in the downstream used market as a result of underproduction for 2+ years.

https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/spotlight-new-york-citys...