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My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

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Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#251

Post by CooCooCaCha »

clan wrote: post #163
manuel_w wrote: post #160

Discussions on checksumming filesystems usually revolve around ZFS and BTRFS, but has someone any experience with bcachefs? It's upstreamed in the linux kernel, I learned, and is supposed to have full checksumming. The author also seems to take filesystem responsibility seriously. Is anyone using it around here? https://bcachefs.org/

That was a decision Linus regretted[1]. There has been some recent discussion about this here on Hacker News[2]. [1] https://linuxiac.com/torvalds-expresses-regret-over-merging-... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41407768

After reading the email chain I have to say my enthusiasm for bcachefs has diminished significantly. I had no idea Kent was that stubborn and seems to have little respect for Linus or his rules.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#252

Post by Kirby64 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #243
acstapleton wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is really going to protect you from a direct lightning strike. Lightning strikes are on the order of millions of volts and thousands of amps. It will arc between circuits that are close enough and it will raise the ground voltage by thousands of volts too. You basically need a lighting rod buried deep into the earth to prevent it hitting your house directly and then you’re still probably going to deal with fr…

Would a UPS protect against that either, though?

No. Current will find a way. Lightning will destroy things you didn’t even think would be possible to destroy.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#253

Post by ryanjshaw »

mvanbaak wrote: post #9

the 'secret' is not that you turn them off. it's simply luck. I have 4TB HGST drives running 24/7 for over a decade. ok, not 24 but 8, and also 0 failures. But I'm also lucky, like you. Some of the people I know have several RMAs with the same drives so there's that. My main question is: What is it that takes 71TB but can be turned off most of the time? Is this the server you store backups?

> What is it that takes 71TB but can be turned off most of the time?

Still waiting for somebody to explain this to me as well.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#254

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Kirby64 wrote: post #252
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would a UPS protect against that either, though?

No. Current will find a way. Lightning will destroy things you didn’t even think would be possible to destroy.

So I'm still left with int0x29's original question: "Isn't this [an electricity spike that a UPS could protect against] what a surge protector is for?"

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#255

Post by flemhans »

vunderba wrote: post #71
ed_mercer wrote: post #64

> Losing the system due to power shenanigans is a risk I accept. A UPS provides more than just that, it delivers constant energy without fluctuations and thus makes your hardware last longer.

Yeah, this definitely caused me to raise an eyebrow. UPS covers brown outs and obviously the occasional temporary power outage. All those drives spinning at full speed suddenly coming to a grinding halt as the power is suddenly cut, and you're quibbling over a paltry additional 10 watts? I can only assume that the data is not that important.

As part of resilience testing I've been turning off our 24 drive backup drive array daily for two years, by flicking the wall switch. So far nothing happened.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#256

Post by deltarholamda »

ffsm8 wrote: post #129

> Losing the system due to power shenanigans is a risk I accept. There is another (very rare) failure an ups protects against, and that's imbalance in the electricity. You can get a spike (up or down, both can be destructive) if there is construction in your area and something happens with the electricity, or lightning hits a pylon close enough to your house. First job I worked at had multiple servers die like that,…

This depends very much on the type of UPS. Big, high dollar UPSes will convert the AC to DC and back to AC, which gives amazing pure sine wave power.

The $99 850VA APC you get from Office Depot does not do this. It switches from AC to battery very quickly, but it doesn't really do power conditioning.

If you can afford the good ones, they genuinely improve reliability of your hardware over the long term. Clean power is great.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#257

Post by Tempest1981 »

jll29 wrote: post #214
sschueller wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the time back in the day when Dell shipped us a server with drives serial numbers being consecutive. Of course both failed at the same time and I spent an all nighter doing a restore.

I ordered my NAS drives on Amazon, to avoid getting the same batch (all consecutive serial numbers) I used amazon.co.uk for one half and amazon.de for the other half of them. One could also stage the orders in time.

Back in the day, I remember driving to different Frys and Central Computers stores to get a mix of manufacturing dates.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#258

Post by faggotbreath »

jclulow wrote: post #94
adastra22 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, zfs includes file-level checksums.

This is not strictly accurate. ZFS records checksums of the records of data that make up the file storage. If you want an end to end file-level checksum (like a SHA-256 digest of the contents of the file) you still need to layer that on top. Which is not to say it's bad, and it's certainly something I rely on a lot, but it's not quite the same!

[flagged]

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#259

Post by throwaway48476 »

otras wrote: post #115
orbital-decay wrote: post #111

Do you have a drive rotation schedule? 24 drives. Same model. Likely the same batch. Similar wear. Imagine most of them failing at the same time, and the rest failing as you're rebuilding it due to the increased load, because they're already almost at the same point. Reliable storage is tricky.

Reminds me of the HN outage where two SSDs both failed after 40k hours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32031243

That's a firmware bug, not wear.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#260

Post by hawk_ »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #259
otras wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of the HN outage where two SSDs both failed after 40k hours: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32031243

That's a firmware bug, not wear.

Yes and risk management dictates diversification to mitigate this kind of risk as well.
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