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My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

louwrentius.com

151–160 of 314 posts

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#151
post #129

> Losing the system due to power shenanigans is a risk I accept. There is another (very rare) failure an ups protects against, and that's imbalance in the electricity. You can get a spike (up or down, both can be destructive) if there is construction in your area and something happens with the electricity, or lightning hits a pylon close enough to your house. First job I worked at had multiple servers die like that,…

Isn't this what a surge protector is for?

Nothing is really going to protect you from a direct lightning strike. Lightning strikes are on the order of millions of volts and thousands of amps. It will arc between circuits that are close enough and it will raise the ground voltage by thousands of volts too. You basically need a lighting rod buried deep into the earth to prevent it hitting your house directly and then you’re still probably going to deal with fried electronics (but your house will survive). Surge protectors are for faulty power supplies and much milder transient events on the grid and maybe a lightning strike a mile or so away.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#152
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Data integrity is the natural expectation humans have from computers I've said it once, and I'll say it again: the only reason ZFS isn't the norm is because we all once lived through a primordial era when it didn't exist. No serious person designing a filesystem today would say it's okay to misplace your data. Not long ago, on this forum, someone told me that ZFS is only good because it had no competitors in its sp…

How are the memory overheads of ZFS these days? In the old days, I remember balking at the extra memory required to run ZFS on the little ARM board I was using for a NAS.

That was always FUD more or less. ZFS uses RAM as its primary cache…like every other filesystem, so it if you have very little RAM for caching the performance will degrade…like every other filesystem.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#153
post #129

> Losing the system due to power shenanigans is a risk I accept. There is another (very rare) failure an ups protects against, and that's imbalance in the electricity. You can get a spike (up or down, both can be destructive) if there is construction in your area and something happens with the electricity, or lightning hits a pylon close enough to your house. First job I worked at had multiple servers die like that,…

We’ve had such spikes in an old apartment we were living in. I had no servers back then, but LED lamps annoyingly failed every few weeks. It was an old building from the 60s and our own apartment had some iffy quick fixes in the installation.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#154
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Data integrity is the natural expectation humans have from computers I've said it once, and I'll say it again: the only reason ZFS isn't the norm is because we all once lived through a primordial era when it didn't exist. No serious person designing a filesystem today would say it's okay to misplace your data. Not long ago, on this forum, someone told me that ZFS is only good because it had no competitors in its sp…

The reason ZFS isn't the norm is because it historically was difficult to set up. Outside of NAS solutions, it's only since Ubuntu 20.04 it has been supported out of the box on any high profile customer facing OS. The reliability of the early versions was also questionable, with high zsys cpu usage and some times arcane commands needed to rebuild pools. Anecdotally, I've had to support lots of friends with zfs issues…

Was there any change in the license that made you believe that it should be less than a issue?

Or do you think people simply stopped paying attention?

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#155
post #47
post #8

I’ve heard the exact opposite advice (keep the drives running to reduce wear from power cycling). Not sure what to believe, but I like having my ZFS NAS running so it can regularly run scrubs and check the data. FWIW, I’ve run my 4 drive system for 10 years with 2 drive failures in that time, but they were not enterprise grade drives (WD Green).

>Not sure what to believe Keep them running. Why?: * The read/write heads experience literally next to no wear while they are floating above the platters. They physically land onto shelves or onto landing zones on the platters themselves when turned off; landing and takeoff are by far the most wear the heads will suffer. * Following on the above, in the worst case the read/write heads might be torn off during takeoff…

Yes - although it's worth bearing in mind the number of load/unload cycles a drive is rated for over its lifetime.

In the case of the IronWolf NAS drives in my home server, that's 600,000.

I spin the drives down after 20 minutes of no activity, which I feel is a good balance between having them be too thrashy and saving energy. After 3 years I'm at about 60,000 load unload cycles.

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#159
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just checked my scrub history, for 20TB on consumer hardware during the last two years it repaired twice around 2 and 4 blocks each time. So not much but at the same time with a special kind of luck might have been on an encrypted archive ^^.

That's all fine and good until that one random lone broken block stops you from opening that file you really need.

Or in my case, a key filesystem metadata block that ruins everything. :s

Re: My 71 TiB ZFS NAS After 10 Years and Zero Drive Failures

#160
Discussions on checksumming filesystems usually revolve around ZFS and BTRFS, but has someone any experience with bcachefs? It's upstreamed in the linux kernel, I learned, and is supposed to have full checksumming. The author also seems to take filesystem responsibility seriously.

Is anyone using it around here?

https://bcachefs.org/

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