Live data from Hacker News

Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

forbes.com

251–260 of 379 posts

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Azure, Oracle, Meta, Tesla, Hot Aisle... all buying up MI300x. You really should disclose that you’re a founder when you mention your company like that

It is in my profile. Pretty well disclosed imho.

Insufficient disclosure. You must be aware that of the companies you listed, one (yours) sticks out as being unknown.

Don't die on this hill, just do the decent thing and add a disclosure. This doesn't show you in a good light.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#252
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why wouldn't they just make more of them? The excuse is supposed to be fab capacity, but the 3070 has better performance than the 4060 etc. and is built on the older process which should no longer be in short supply.

>and is built on the older process which should no longer be in short supply. I am not sure where that idea came from. It is from Samsung 8nm Fab. It never had the capacity to play with in the first place. Especially when Samsung Foundry is upgrading to chase with leading node.

In general you want to upgrade your oldest fab to the newest node, or build a new one, instead of shutting down a recent one and taking it out of production even though there is still demand for that node.

There are still plenty of things being produced in fabs with older technology than that. Global Foundaries is the third largest in the world and they're offering 12nm or worse. People buy it because not everything needs a node which less than six months old and the price is right.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#253

Somehow I wish it weren't true because I hate monopolies in any markets. Nvidia has been enjoying their absurd premium on consumer and production GPUs and intentionally removed the NVLink capability in the GeForce 4090 series (3090 had them) to avoid cannibalizing their A100 and H100 business. With NVLink, people could chain multiple GPUs and increase the overall VRAM without much reduction in bandwidth. But without…

I understand the sentiment. But the only reason you're mad at Nvidia is because they made something desirable (a GPU that does NN training) but didn't do it in the way you prefer (NVLink, Linux compatibility etc). It's not their fault AMD and others have been asleep at the wheel and handed them the whole market for free. Any company with a monopoly on the hot new thing would try to capitalize on it. When the other GP…

Any evidence that the much less well-funded AMD has been "asleep at the wheel" w.r.t. the GPU market?

Without going practically all-in on Zen, they'd be bankrupt.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#254
post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest this just sounds like a bunch of talking points stuck together, can you write a credible argument based on known case-law/precedent/etc... if you have a legal angle to critique?

Society isn’t shaped just by current laws, but also by where we want things to go. If the current situations is undesirable, changing laws and regulations is the way to change it. (Of course actually enforcing current laws and regulations can also go a long way in many cases…)

So what changes to the law do you propose? None of the little annoyances that Nvidia is occasionally creating amount to anything that could have resulted in their current dominance in AI processing.

They made a good product. The competition is responding too slowly. And they got lucky with this crazy (in a good way) AI boom. I don't see how this could possibly be outlawed or why you would even want to. It will resolve itself on its own given enough time.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customers who want midrange or low end GPUs are price sensitive. Therefore, midrange and low end GPUs are a low margin business. Hence, there's little to no reason to provide a very compelling product in those categories. While midrange GPUs are a cut from highend GPUs, they're still significantly more expensive to manufacture than say CPUs, at a transistor to transistor level. Look at an AMD 7950x transistor count,…

> Customers who want midrange or low end GPUs are price sensitive. Therefore, midrange and low end GPUs are a low margin business. Customers who want petroleum are price sensitive. Therefore, petroleum exporting is a low margin business. This is why the Saudis make the profit margins they do. Wait, something's not right here. > Look at an AMD 7950x transistor count, and then an RTX 4060 transistor count. The GPU has…

  And anyway who is talking about the bottom end? The question is why they don't produce more of e.g. the RTX 3070, which is on the old Samsung 8LPP process, has fewer transistors than the RTX 4060, is faster, and is still selling for a higher price.
What do you think? I gave you my reasons. Why don't you take a crack at your own question? There has to be a logical business reason right?

  Customers who want petroleum are price sensitive. Therefore, petroleum exporting is a low margin business. This is why the Saudis make the profit margins they do. Wait, something's not right here.
One is a commodity. The other is about as high tech as it gets. Completely different economic rules that govern these products.

  You're comparing the high end CPU to the mid-range GPU. The AMD 8500G has more transistors than the RTX 4060 and costs less. The 8500G comes with a heatsink and fan. The 8GB of GDDR6 on the 4060 costs $27 but the 4060 it costs $120 more. A printed circuit board doesn't cost $93.
One has an entire board that needs soldering, assembled by a manufacturing line, tested with many parts, and a team of dedicated engineers optimizing drivers constantly. The other is a CPU that is machine tested, and shipped with a heatsink fan unattached. Come on now.

  That's not because people stopped buying them, it's because they shifted production capacity to servers.
That's not true. The discrete GPU market has been shrinking for 14 years straight with some crypto boom years here and there. See the chart I posted previously. Fewer and fewer people are buying discrete GPUs

  But they do though. You can find lower end AMD GPUs from the last two years for $125 (e.g. RX 6400) whereas the cheapest RTX 3000 or 4000 series is around twice that.
AMD cards do not "feast" on low-end and midrange. According to Steam charts, Nvidia still dominates midrange cards.[0] Furthermore, when I said "feast", I meant making profits. AMD does not make much profit from midrange or low end cards.

The bottom line is, you keep wondering why no one is offering compelling value in the midrange area but there's a very obvious reason why: profit is not there.

[0]https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#256
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're only upset because they "

They gained market advantage by creating something that delights consumers. I'd call that a net win.

The complaint is about losing those delights now that the market is secured by software lockin.

The bait and switch.

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#257
post #3

It seems deeply overvalued to me, as it's pretty likely that NVIDIA's competitors will have parallel computation hardware that competes well enough. I'm personally not a fan of NVIDIA's drivers or the reliability of their hardware.

> I'm personally not a fan of NVIDIA's drivers

A bit funny thing is that they are essentially software company which focuses on software quality, if you look at the stats how many people are working with software over there. And still it is not good enough?

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#259
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And he is saying AMD focusing on non-GPU markets and going from being a laughable underdog to a powerhouse hardly qualifies as "being asleep at the wheel".

Alright, fair point, but that is also why they missed out on the AI boom.

As if it was just there for the taking. AMD doesn't have the money to do what Nvidia does

Re: Nvidia is now more valuable than Amazon and Google

#260

Somehow I wish it weren't true because I hate monopolies in any markets. Nvidia has been enjoying their absurd premium on consumer and production GPUs and intentionally removed the NVLink capability in the GeForce 4090 series (3090 had them) to avoid cannibalizing their A100 and H100 business. With NVLink, people could chain multiple GPUs and increase the overall VRAM without much reduction in bandwidth. But without…

Nvidia’s value is completely out of line with their revenue and eventually that will catch up with them.
Post reply on HN