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Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

lanternbioworks.com

251–260 of 312 posts

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#251
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just cant take this seriously. Why are Americans so afraid of death?

Not sure if you are kidding, but death is bad. I assume you don't want to die now, so why would you want to any other time? And don't say 'because I'm old', because obviously aging is part of the problem. Being 20-30 forever is the goal.

Death is not bad - without it life makes no sense. Being 30 forever and immortal would be my definition of hell. Death is doing a great job, leave it alone.

Chugging 300 pills per day - you will still die.

It is inevitable.

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#252
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just cant take this seriously. Why are Americans so afraid of death?

I don't subscribe to his belief system, but logically if you enjoyed life, why wouldn't you want to prolong it?

I have no problem with prolonging life but trying to become immortal is dumb (and you will fail)

I will spend my time living instead of trying to avoid death.

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just cant take this seriously. Why are Americans so afraid of death?

I can’t that you seriously - what other fear could possibly be more valid? Death is the end of EVERYTHING for an individual. What could be worse than that? Everything else, we can figure out for ourselves, given time - pushing back death gives us more time.

Death is the beginning and end of everything. There is more to existence than your ego.

More time is fine but don't waste it by trying to avoid death (protip: you can't)

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>because other states tend to destroy the host No untrue. That is the most extreme case. A parasite can make a host less healthy and less likely to reproduce. This all lives on a gradient where parasitic relationship move the likelihood of reproduction down a little while symbiosis is the most extreme state where reproductive success is only positively effected. >it's less appealing when you're talking about sticking…

> A parasite can make a host less healthy and less likely to reproduce. This all lives on a gradient where parasitic relationship move the likelihood of reproduction down a little while symbiosis is the most extreme state where reproductive success is only positively effected. Whether or not the host is destroyed, that symbiosis is the end game is not reassuring to someone whose mouth has gotten worse as a result of…

>Whether or not the host is destroyed, that symbiosis is the end game is not reassuring to someone whose mouth has gotten worse as a result of the treatment.

That is the point of clinical trials. No treatment can be released until it has been verified to be safe.

>I'm not saying it won't work and isn't worth a large scale trial, I'm just saying your arguments based on evolutionary theory aren't a sound basis for medicine.

I never said it was a sound basis in it's current form. It's a sound basis to move forward rahttps://news.ycombinator.com/newspidly to change the current theory into a sound basis.

> I would not take a tapeworm into me on the grounds that someday tapeworms might evolve into a symbiotic relationship with humans.

one average guy who literally did the opposite of you. Against all medical advice, he infected himself with hookworms:

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/may/23/parasit...

podcast on the same guy who infected himself with hookworms: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/404/enemy-camp-2010/act-thr...

The innovative risk takers are the ones that try things out and move things forward. I'm not recommending you become one, but I recommend you support people who have the drive and willingness to do this because you and I only stand to benefit.

The other problem with science is that it's slow. Will science produce a verified treatment in your lifetime? Clinical trials cost millions. Maybe they'll do one, maybe not. In those cases if you have no other option, take a risk.

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A parasite can make a host less healthy and less likely to reproduce. This all lives on a gradient where parasitic relationship move the likelihood of reproduction down a little while symbiosis is the most extreme state where reproductive success is only positively effected. Whether or not the host is destroyed, that symbiosis is the end game is not reassuring to someone whose mouth has gotten worse as a result of…

>Whether or not the host is destroyed, that symbiosis is the end game is not reassuring to someone whose mouth has gotten worse as a result of the treatment. That is the point of clinical trials. No treatment can be released until it has been verified to be safe. >I'm not saying it won't work and isn't worth a large scale trial, I'm just saying your arguments based on evolutionary theory aren't a sound basis for medi…

Another guy who did it: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/08/12/4896190...

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#256
A related question is if the same idea can be used for a deodorant: make a type of skin bacteria that does not produce odour and can outcompete other types of bacteria.

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#257

This sounds like great additional protection, but I would still like to brush and floss to get the remaining food grime out of my mouth. Meaning it really doesn’t change my life all that much. It would certainly be a game changer for lower income families.

I don't think anyone is suggesting this would replace brushing and flossing.

Plenty of people still have problems with cavities, despite taking good care of their teeth (seems genetics plays an outsized role in tooth/gum health). Not having to worry about cavities would likely be of great value to them.

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#258

A conversation with my friend who was a dentistry student, ~2013. > [The friend, let's call her L, trying to dissuade me from drinking some fizzy drink] > J: But I won't get a cavity if the liquid doesn't touch my teeth. > L: Cavities are caused by the ensuing low ph environment, not by contact with teeth > J: Does that mean I can drink as much of it as I want as long as I rinse my mouth with water afterwards? > L, w…

This conflicts with some advice I have previously heard, so would be interested in any hard research for or against. I was told that if you vomit, you should not brush or rinse your mouth. You are only moving the low pH stomach acid around your mouth and exposing more teeth to the acidic environment. Instead you should try to neutralize the acid (baking powder or similar). On one hand, I could believe you are just sp…

That doesn't sound like a conflict to me. People actively resist allowing vomit to touch most of their mouth. We tend to do the opposite with soda. So swishing with water after vomiting puts vomit where it otherwise wouldn't have been, while swishing with water after drinking soda only dilutes the places that soda already was.

The brushing thing has to do with the effect acid has on enamel.

I doubt you could find a dentist that wouldn't recommend swishing with water after drinking soda.

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably nothing.

Unless you have an antacid then swallow the bacteria. Then the bacteria, that transforms sugars and carbs into ethanol, gets past the stomach acid, populates the gut and you get a free buzz with no cavities everytime you eat a cracker.

That's actually a thing! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-brewery_syndrome

Re: Gene-Engineered Mouth Bacteria

#260
Adding live organisms to complex living systems tends to have unpredictable and destabilizing consequences. Invasive species being introduced to ecosystems can have knock-on effects that go far beyond their immediate biome. The human body is a complex living system, and the consequences of perturbing that system are difficult to predict.

There are probably also lots of "good" bacteria in the mouth and gut using salivary lactate. I could not begin to guess at the number of additional metabolic pathways happening that are related to this. Not to mention the mutacin production that they mention, that they think may also kill off some of the bacteria in the mouth, that hopefully isn't replaced with nasty S. aureus, C. difficile, Candida.

The gut flora angle is just a whole other rabbit hole.

In light of the potential benefits, the "reasons not to" might fall by the wayside, hopefully none of the cautions end up being a big deal. But the status quo doesn't suck that much, if you look at how bad it could be.

Personally, I would like to see more resources go to diagnosis, study and understanding, rather than seeing people try to jump straight to the silver bullet and test on volunteers. Is it moral because they are "volunteers"? Are they really volunteers given that they would most likely get paid?

More importantly - and I cannot emphasize this enough: If this was such a great and simple solution, evolution would have already given this mechanism to us to and other animals. There is (or was at some point) a very, very good reason that our bodies don't already do this.

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