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Let Teenagers Sleep

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#251

Post by NullPrefix »

fosk wrote: post #179
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

There should be two categorizations for students: highly creative students should be placed on a different path to adulthood, everybody else could use the current system. Highly creative people are more likely to be successful dropouts. To force highly creative people into this routine, is dictatorship of the mind. That's how it was for me. Edit: I upset the academics :)

Do you suppose there should be a test to get into the creatives path? Because every kid will want to be there

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#252

Post by tim333 »

kbrannigan wrote: post #187
andy_ppp wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno man, pre-civilisation and education wasn't exactly much fun either. I'd rather be a part of the system that basically gives us everything from food to iPhones and the Internet than fight against it (while avoiding predators in the wild). This is not to say that education, especially for boys and young men couldn't be made considerably better.

The older I get the more I'm realizing "pre-history", "pre-civilisation" are very Western European Concepts. Like when the Conquistadors "civilized" mexico Or when the Portuguese and French "civilized" West Africa.

Early civilisation mostly kicked off around Egypt and China so not all that Western European.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#253

Post by CadmiumYellow »

avgcorrection wrote: post #93

Pet peeve of mine: some older adults are proud that they get up early. And that’s OK in isolation. The problem though is that older adults rule society moreso than younger adults, and certainly compared to teenagers. So for many older adults it feels natural to go to bed early and to get up early. But then we as a society confuse that with universal “good behavior”/good character, so everyone has to dance to that tun…

It took me a long time to accept that I wasn't going to grow out of my night owl tendencies (or at least I haven't yet, in my 30s). So much conventional wisdom about health, productivity, and even diet begins with "early to bed, early to rise" type of advice. I've never been happier and healthier, though, than when I gave up trying to force myself into that kind of schedule. I enjoy my most alert and creative hours in the evening and I hate the world in the morning. I have no appetite til the afternoon, so I can't comply with all the advice about no eating after 6pm or after dark or whatever. When I try to get up early to go to the gym my workouts are terrible because my body does not want to be awake or alert at that time. I wish society was more flexible and had more career paths that allowed for a less morning-oriented schedule! There is natural variation in human circadian rhythm and not everyone will grow out of that teenage sleep schedule. Well, I certainly sleep less now, and get up at a time my teenage self would have considered early (9 am), but I cannot properly enjoy my life when forced to go to bed before midnight so I've simply given up trying. We need a night owl movement!!

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#254

Post by [deleted] »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #157

Its a common misconception that the goal of Education System is to educate. It's not, and the system will never accept 'improvements' that run contrary to it's purpose. In actuality education system serves four purposes: One: make both parents avaliable for the job market. For that it must supervise children during work hours, to make sure they aren't getting in trouble, drugs, or worst of all, into politics and prot…

[deleted]

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#255

Post by Yoric »

peoplearepeople wrote: post #54
fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #17

As a teenager I was diagnosed with "ADD". Very intelligent, but unable to focus or complete assignments. My life habits were carb heavy unhealthy food (from the cafeteria), soda, lack of sleep due to long school commute, not much exercise As an adult, I eat no carbs, all meat and vegetables, I work from home and sleep in as far as I need every night. My thinking is laser sharp. They tried to medicate me with all sort…

> My guidance counseler suggested I dont attend college Reminder to self, tell my children to ignore anything a 'guidance councilor' says

I never quite understood what the role was. Does anyone listen to them?

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#256

Post by wahnfrieden »

gonzo41 wrote: post #249
eldaisfish wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find a lot of commentary here to be false dichotomies. Here, education is either bad or good when the reality is that it depends. Some aspects are good, some are bad, some are good in some places, worse in others. A lot of people struggle with complexity and it is telling that a forum focused on computer science, IT and general tech is so challenged to realise this.

Being good at one thing doesn't make you good at everything. See elon musk. Whilst I love the cynical view, and it somewhat sadly clicks. I agree high school education sits in the grey. From personal experience the most valuable lesson I leaned in high school is when I was doing something I was interested in getting sleep didn't matter. But learning how to grind through work is a really useful like skill. There's no…

Adults ought to be liberated as the starting point. HS is full of violence even if implied

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#257

Post by krolden »

thegrimmest wrote: post #224
krolden wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They" in this context are the people who benefit from an increased labor pool (capitalists, who want lower wages for everyone) and those who thought it was done for their benefit. >This is not true when comparing the price of the same labor offered by a man or woman. Okay, maybe not HALF, but you can't argue with the gender wage gap. Men make ~20% more than women. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/wb/data/occupations

> Men make ~20% more than women. This is so disingenuous it really shouldn't be repeated. The pay gap within the same job is miniscule. Men and women make different career choices. There's just no accounting for the lack of women applying for high-paying positions as roughnecks.

Well the numbers are coming from the dept of labor so idk what you're talking about.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#258

Post by alar44 »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #92
ArchOversight wrote: post #51

> This shift reverses at adulthood. The biological nature of this daily rhythm means that sending a teenager to bed earlier won’t necessarily mean they fall asleep earlier. No, this shift does not reverse in adulthood for some people... I am in my 30's and I still fall asleep midnight to 1 AM, and wake up "late" by most adult standards at around 8/9 AM. I can not shift my sleep schedule to earlier, I've tried many ti…

do you consume any caffeine after 12:00 noon? Caffeine's half life is 6 hours. So if you consume at 3pm, you still have 1/2 that caffeine in your body at 9 pm. 1/4 of it at 3am.

[dead]

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#259

Post by jay_kyburz »

gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

>The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc.

No its not, the article clearly states teenagers need 9 hours of sleep. If you choose to get up at 5am you just need to be in bed by 8pm. If you don't want to go to bed at 8, don't do sport and get up at 5.

The parents and students themselves when they try and do too much.

Re: Let Teenagers Sleep

#260

Post by kenjackson »

gabereiser wrote: post #57

The real blame for early high school is extra-curricular sports. Basketball, Football, etc. For those sports to thrive, teams need to practice, in order for practice to be efficient, it needs to be at least an hour. So 2 hours are allocated (suit up, practice, suit down). In order for children to be able to commit to 2 hours extra of their time BEFORE their parents get home (5pm), class would have to end by 3pm. Now,…

I'd buy this if schools with virtually no sports teams had 9am or later start times. In Seattle there are private schools that could start whenver they want with virtually extra curriculars who also start at 8am.

Additionally most sports teams don't have practice ending at 5pm. My sons basketball team didn't end until 6:30, because they have study hall for the athletes right after school.

Your assertion just doesn't ring true.

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