251–260 of 267 posts
Can someone explain why some people here are so agitated over a claim that the US did it? Is it hard to believe that US intelligence would do something like this? Besides, if you hate Russia then it's a good thing right?
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I’m genuinely curious where the gymnastic is? I am asking in good faith. What is Russia’s interest in sabotaging it? They can’t sell gas to fund their war machine. What’s the US interest? Now Europe must buy LNG from our fantastic gas companies. US exports of LNG are at an all time high price. Europe is pissed off at our rival. Not to mention our commander in chief threatened to blow it up, why? Everything here says…
Russia is the only country who could do it without risking provoking a war. Russia knew they weren’t going to make any money on it due to the strong reaction to the war on Ukraine. Russia could have decided to do it to remind Western Europe that it could do the same to other pipelines they depend on. None of that is determinative that Russia did do it, but it’s sufficient to me to indicate that they could have done i…
(To be clear, this is all just conjecture. The factions are real enough, and have motives that could make players in this game, but it's obviously not the only viable explanation.)
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Also, how would Ukraine pull off such a mission in a sea it has no access to?
A boat, some underwater explosive charges, underwater ROVs, and a team to operate all the above seems likely to be well within Ukraine's capabilities. The first underwater ROV I found via googling is $10K: https://www.deeptrekker.com/shop/products/dtg3# It seems like something within the technical capabilities and resources of any functioning non-microstate.
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Russia is the only country who could do it without risking provoking a war. Russia knew they weren’t going to make any money on it due to the strong reaction to the war on Ukraine. Russia could have decided to do it to remind Western Europe that it could do the same to other pipelines they depend on. None of that is determinative that Russia did do it, but it’s sufficient to me to indicate that they could have done i…
Russia is also not a single actor. There are factions, and they have different interests. The "liberals" aka the economic bloc in the administration - who know full well what kind of shitshow is ahead in the long term - would prefer the war to die down, and for gas to start flowing again, preferably in exchange for dropping sanctions. Because of that, they're a potential threat to the war faction; think of how some p…
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So ... Germany declared war on Russia knowing it would involve fighting France then. Not sure how this changes things unless the alliance was a secret
As parent said, Germany didn’t declare war willingly, they had no choice but supporting the alliance. You cannot just change sides in war as it suits you.
Furthermore, there's substantial evidence that Germany - or rather, some German factions - was very specifically pressuring Austria into a war, precisely so that it could then be "joined":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Crisis#The_German_%22Blan...
While the Seymour Hersh story seems unbelievable to me, so does the initial explanation that was being thrown around, that Russia did this as sabotage, e.g., https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/09/28/nord-stream-... . The utter stupidity of that idea is along the sames lines as rhetoric, also present in OP, that Russia "weaponized" its gas pipelines. (To use that language, nearly anything can be a "weapon.") I'…
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I don't see why this is so downvoted. People are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to discount the possibility of Russian sabotage here and I really don't understand why that is. Nothing is certain, but I think it's silly to discount Russia being responsible it for the reasons people are giving.
I’m genuinely curious where the gymnastic is? I am asking in good faith. What is Russia’s interest in sabotaging it? They can’t sell gas to fund their war machine. What’s the US interest? Now Europe must buy LNG from our fantastic gas companies. US exports of LNG are at an all time high price. Europe is pissed off at our rival. Not to mention our commander in chief threatened to blow it up, why? Everything here says…
The Russians can also probably be secure in knowing that NATO won't publicly identify Russia as responsible as that would probably mean war and it has been very clear that NATO's top priority is avoiding the spread of the war in Ukraine.
There are some other possible Russian motivations I've seen, but put less stock in like capability demonstration and limiting incentives for a coup.
For anyone interested, there's more to the accusation of Stoltenberg's involvement with intelligence from a young age than the author of this article implies by dismissing it as ridiculous on its face.[1] Whether or not you find the linked narrative convincing is up to you, however. [1] https://www.patreon.com/posts/unlocked-young-78471711
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Because it makes no sense, blowing up NS would achieve nothing the EU was already cutting itself off Russian gas and oil. This operation has no upsides and the downsides are so big that this is probably the only time where the meme of the guy being thrown out of the window for suggesting something in a meeting is actually appropriate… If there was even a whiff of credible evidence that the US was behind it it would’v…
> the EU was already cutting itself off Russian gas and oil Which in practice only meant gorging on it and storing like crazy, while initiating years-long process of establishing alternative routes (x10 priced LNG obviously doesn't count) > If there was even a whiff of credible evidence that the US was behind it it would’ve set back US-EU relations by decades if not more and if there was actual undeniable proof it co…
For anyone interested, there's more to the accusation of Stoltenberg's involvement with intelligence from a young age than the author of this article implies by dismissing it as ridiculous on its face.[1] Whether or not you find the linked narrative convincing is up to you, however. [1] https://www.patreon.com/posts/unlocked-young-78471711
Given what camp Stoltenberg ended up in, and his family origins, this is highly plausible.
https://vietnamnet.vn/en/ex-foreign-minister-of-norway-honou...
The same Jens Stoltenberg who was against and protested the american war against Iraq from the beginning?
As a Norwegian I have never voted for Jens Stoltenberg or his party, I am slightly more to the center in our politics. However I find the patreon article dishonest and completely speculative. It has no evidence whatsoever just tries to paint normal things in a conspiratorial light.