I actually was drawn into reading this much more than the original article. I found myself going into skim mode with the original Hersh article. So ironically, I actually learned more about Hersh's claims reading this article than the original. I've worked with a bunch of old people of late. And I'm saying that from the reference point of 52. It's hard. I don't want to be an ageist. But I regularly see how hard it is…
It's also a possibility that Hersh has been a victim of a bullshitter.
Or that Oliver Alexander is not a reporter, but a stenographer.
If this guy wants me to believe him he needs to stop insulting Hersh. I appreciate the deep dive (get it) of this piece, and I appreciate his calling out what he believes to be bullshit. But I DO NOT appreciate the ad hominem attacks on Hersh.
He is Scandinavian so he might be offended by Hersh pushing unsourced lies accusing Norway of being state terrorists.
Some of the most prolific bull-shitters on the planet are people who claim to have been part of some secret military operation and have inside knowledge in great detail, hinting that they played a major role in the planning and execution. Anyone who served in the military knows this because these elaborate confabulations are the jam of a certain kind of military person. Seymour Hersh is older than my father (85). My…
Some of the greatest bull-shitters work for intelligence.
This text doesn’t really disproof the Hersh story beyond nitpicking some details and incorrect use of technical languages. (Admittedly it would be hard to disprove; and it is the accuser that has the burden of proof.) However the big issue is the complete shutdown of media coverage and that the governments of Denmark, Sweden, and Germany all keep their investigations secret.
There may be an incorrect statement regarding the Norwegian P-8 in the linked article. The author states that that "they won’t enter into active service until later this year", but the source the author links to doesn't actually make that claim. All it says is that the P-3s will keep flying until sometime in 2023, when the "P-8 is ready to take over". I don't think that implies that Norway doesn't already have some P…
> I would like to believe that this is possible within a few months. Setting a specific date is difficult. But we are now trying to qualify the P-8 aircraft and crews for operational service from the end of the first quarter of 2023, confirms Rolf Folland, head of the Air Force to TV 2. Translated from this piece published in November 2022: https://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/settes-i-beredskap-rask... So the planes…
Thanks. That sounds like it rules out the Norwegian P-8 claim.
The sheer number of rhetorical fallacies employed in the opening of this "takedown" inclines me to believe that Hersh's reporting is a largely accurate and truthful account. For example, stating that you could write "an entire post on the reasons why sounds entirely made up by someone with no real grasp of what that suggestion would actually technically entail" is a clear-cut appeal to ridicule [1] fallacy with no fu…
"The criticism is bad, therefore the claim must be true" certainly sounds like a rhetorical fallacy to me. Does it have a name?
In WWI, Germany attacked France, it's largest trading partner.
Germany declared war on Russia which was allied with France. And Germany did not declare war on any of those countries out of will, but due to an alliance with the Austro-Hungarian empire. The situation is not even remotely comparable.
So ... Germany declared war on Russia knowing it would involve fighting France then. Not sure how this changes things unless the alliance was a secret
Can you name a single other instance in history where a country at war significantly damaged its ability to raise money for the war to “send a message”? What exactly is the message? The US didn’t think Russia had a submersible and some C4 and now they do?
Well, a strategic goal to let Europeans suffer during winter in order to shatter our resolve to support Ukraine, while avoiding contractual penalties for unilateral cessation of gaz delivery, can explain the benefit of exploding the pipeline. This can explain also the fact that the fourth pipe was left intact - as a potential carrot to Europe... I do not pretend that the above is truth, but it seams to be a plausible…
I don't see why this is so downvoted. People are doing a lot of mental gymnastics to discount the possibility of Russian sabotage here and I really don't understand why that is. Nothing is certain, but I think it's silly to discount Russia being responsible it for the reasons people are giving.
Sure, there are probably some holes/slight inaccuracies in Hersh's story. This particular "debunking" is mostly nitpicking. The tweet about the minesweeper path is a head-scratcher, because it sure looks like the boat slowed down/loitered near both blast sites. It is interesting that the White House, CIA, State Department, and establishment media class all found the need to promptly respond to what they characterized…
Hersh is well connected to the Russian intelligence agencies and has been for his entire career, including before the recently very viable "Debunking" of his Syria story-line (another story that benefited Russia). He's publicly stated he is close friends with Scott Ritter, who recently called for Ukraine's "annihilation", and both are regular guests on propaganda organ RT. Hersh's previous activity played a key role…
What steps has the USA taken to ensure the truth came out? Please be specific. It's been months.
> anti-Russian forces in Syria
All-time euphemism for AQ/ISIS affiliates like HTS.
While interesting, the author appears to be nitpicking. It does not really refute Hersh's story, because these minor inconsistencies appear in any news article, including the NYT. It is irrelevant whether Hersh gets all details right, the important thing is whether his source is correct on the big picture or not. It seems to me that the veracity of Hersh's claims cannot be decided by textual analysis, but rather by a…
Asserting that “[Jens Steltonberg] was a hardliner on all things Putin and Russia who had cooperated with the American intelligence community since the Vietnam War. He has been trusted completely since.” when he was actually born in 1959 is not a small thing. It’s simply making things up.
I would call it completely unrealistic (asuming we have entered John le Carre territory); Stoltenberg is of a political family in Norway; and I am sure it he was politically active from an early age. While Saigon fell in 1975, the various Vietnam movements countinue as organisations providing support for and cultural exchange with the newly unified (and heavily sanctioned) Vietnam.