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Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

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Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#251

Post by GekkePrutser »

colordrops wrote: post #81
notmyaccountt wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google created an Android userspace that requires Google services to do anything meaningful. This violates everything Linux stands for.

Not great, agreed, but they did at least architect the OS so that they are decoupled and you can build without them very easily. In fact the largest custom ROM doesn't bundle with them by default (LineageOS). What do you need Google services for?

LineageOS doesn't bundle Google Play by default because they're not allowed to, not because they don't want to.

In fact they would like to because a majority of their users install it. But there's a lot of legal strings attached to it.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#252

Post by axytol »

timonoko wrote: post #133

You can strap Raspberry to your phone via USB and you have 100% Linux phone without restrictions. Communication happens via Phone's USB-tethering and Raspberry's Internet-via-USB (and bVNC). OTG-phone can also power the Raspberry. I used this setup a lot, but nowadays Termux with X11-server is good enough. Most use nowadays is photo editing with GIMP. You can gain excellent dexterity with bVNC with time.

Thinking of the Pi0, I assume you would need 2 usb cables and a hub: 1 cable goes to Pi's power usb port, 1 goes to the other usb port for connectivity, then both cables joined through a hub to the phone's usb port.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#253

Post by kaba0 »

_carbyau_ wrote: post #123
z3t4 wrote: post #39

Nokia had Linux on their smartphone until Microsoft bought them and stopped everything, they even shut down the app store. The OS was called MeeGo. Part of the Nokia team however started their own company called Jolla and still produce smartphones running Linux, they call their OS Sailfish. (ignoring the fact that Android also uses the Linux kernel). The problem with alternative phone OS:es is that in the country I l…

"the ID monopoly and Payment monopoly refuse to support other operating systems" This is my issue. I am commonly hearing people ask "What are you, iOS or Android?" - IE as if it is inherent to the person themselves and there are only two choices. This is scary. I love the idea of having an alternative to iOS and Android. But I also need to function within society. This shouldn't be a choice.

Well, in a way it is inherent. There is simply no place for a third competitor, as developing for even just 2 platforms is already the max a company would be willing to do.

That’s why even Microsoft would a ridiculously huge budget failed, the market is simply saturated. The only way a new competitor could stand up is 100% compatibility with one of the platform’s app selection or a non-profit, open-source model.

So linux phones with android comp may indeed have a future, but I think they should pretty much just ditch most of the existing linux desktop user space as it is fundamentally flawed (mostly security-wise), but then we are back to android and it begs the question, why reinvent the wheel instead of just fixing the few shortcomings of android, like too close coupling with google?

If anything, we need better hardware, not software — grapheneOS is pretty much ideal as a linux/android OS.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#254

Post by kaba0 »

preisschild wrote: post #212
phatfish wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess it is because GrapheneOS does not pass the Google "SafteyNet" check. The Android distros that are more well known do not pass by default due to Google coming after them if they do. LineageOS has not passed it for the last few years. There are pretty simple patches you can apply though to get it passing, assuming nothing else about the phone triggers it.

I don't even have the Google Services installed on my phone because I consider them a security and privacy risk. For now I can use my computer, because they fortunately also have a website, but I could see in the near-future that you have to have this app installed.

You can run google services in a sandbox on grapheneos for only select programs.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#255

Post by kaba0 »

NoboruWataya wrote: post #238
preisschild wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a non-popular Android isn't a choice for govmt e-id. I use a hardened Android distro (GrapheneOS) on my phone. Even with a locked bootloader and no root my countries (austria) e-government app and my banking app blocks me due to a "integrity check" failing.

I would like to get a Pixel with GrapheneOS for my next phone but this is holding me back. Even if some of my banking apps are currently reported to work, there is no guarantee they won't break in future. It's too risky for me unfortunately, which is annoying.

I would love grapheneOS on some better hardware - I didn’t want to sacrifice on that, so I went with an iphone which have a similarly good security-story.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#256

Post by kaba0 »

outsomnia wrote: post #177
nyx_land wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sailfish could have been great, but Jolla apparently tried to overextend themselves making hardware and software for their products and almost died trying. It's a shame because the Jolla phone had a swappable back part and could have things like a slideout keyboard that looked really sweet. Now they're on the enterprise and government contracting grind and market their OS on their site with all the bs enterprisey jar…

Gnome 3 on a phone is actually quite nice.

Do you mean phosh? As far as I know it is written from scratch, not based on gnome, only in design.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#257

Post by kaba0 »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #148
johndough wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not AI - many of the best "AI" publications are open source after all. The problem is that hardware vendors do not provide access to their signal processing chip's internals. It is damn near impossible to even make a phone call these days without some obscure binary blob or magic chips that nobody knows what they do but are able to control every aspect of a phone.

> It is damn near impossible to even make a phone call these days without some obscure binary blob or magic chips that nobody knows what they do but are able to control every aspect of a phone. That’s always been the case for wireless phones; It’s nothing new. Your SIM card is running literal Java programs (hence where the “3 billion Java devices”) and can ask the baseband to send data for it with you having no way t…

(Just a nit, it is actually 56 billion now)

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#258

Post by yosito »

jacooper wrote: post #118
yosito wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used an Android phone with CalyxOS and microG for a year and never had this problem. There were a few apps I had a hard time getting APKs for without the Play Store, but even those I found I could side load from other devices that had the Play Store.

Or just use Aurora store! You dont have this problem because CalyxOS has a workaround for SafetyNet, i hear its pretty hacky, but it works.

There are some APKs that aren't available on Aurora.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#259

Post by timonoko »

axytol wrote: post #252
timonoko wrote: post #133

You can strap Raspberry to your phone via USB and you have 100% Linux phone without restrictions. Communication happens via Phone's USB-tethering and Raspberry's Internet-via-USB (and bVNC). OTG-phone can also power the Raspberry. I used this setup a lot, but nowadays Termux with X11-server is good enough. Most use nowadays is photo editing with GIMP. You can gain excellent dexterity with bVNC with time.

Thinking of the Pi0, I assume you would need 2 usb cables and a hub: 1 cable goes to Pi's power usb port, 1 goes to the other usb port for connectivity, then both cables joined through a hub to the phone's usb port.

May have been also that when you connected Pi to a power source it powered the phone too. I was using this system 10 years go with very cheap phone without OTG, so Pi was solution to this and other problems.

Re: Is there hope for Linux on smartphones? [video]

#260

Post by fsflover »

CharlesW wrote: post #30
lrvick wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is Linux but it has nowhere close to the fully open source freedom of a traditional Linux workstation. This is why I carry a tiny linux laptop.

Phones are not PCs/general-purpose computers. Do you want your TV to be a general purpose computer as well? (Having put my family through a Media Center PC and TV remotes with keyboards/trackpads for several years, I don't recommend it.)

My Pinephone is a general-purpose computer, which runs a desktop OS and can be connected to a keyboard and screen. Same for Librem 5, which I preordered.
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