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Phrases in computing that might need retiring

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Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#251
post #237
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even though the etymologies of the words don't describe them as being based on race / racial judgments Then why should we change them? I know you said: > Setting aside the historical context, they also help reenforce the idea of "white is good, black is bad" But if we can't trust people to infer a word's meaning based on the context, we have a much bigger problem imo. Another example of this is the word gentleman.…

First, because there often isn't a context where the word has the correct meaning in the first place. If you have a list of disallowed curse word substrings and Dr. Theodore Fucknuckett gets upset at not being allowed to login, then adding "Fucknuckett" to something called a "whitelist" is using a somewhat tenuous connection to the meaning of whitelist. "Allowlist" is more direct. Also, I just made it up, and I gotta…

> A master/slave database setup gets its meaning from the master telling the slaves what to do.

This I agree with. I suppose my problem is that whatever you decide to call it, that dynamic doesn't change. Although I've yet to see an article on the subject of the use of Master/Slave in computing which doesn't bring up America's historical use of slaves, the dynamic being described is older than humanity itself.

Simply calling a thing something else is never going to be enough when the problem people have is with the very concept of the thing being renamed. It's doomed to fall victim to the euphemism treadmill. No matter how abstract and convoluted our terminology gets trying to avoid talking about it, what we're describing is still right there in our faces. Rather than try to pretend the very concept of Slaves and Masters doesn't exist, it'll save a hell of a lot of time to just continue to call it what it is plainly.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#252
post #89
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am an EE, that works with microcontrollers on a daily basis. I know some html I play around with sdl and ncurses a bit, I can do some internet stuff. I am clearly a full stack dev right?

Oh, and I designed an UI for my smartwatch OS. For which I wrote everything from the ground up.

Still not quite there. You haven't mentioned whether you make pancakes or not.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#253
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what "devops" was before, we needed to kill the term earlier than you might think. Devops was originally a set of software release practises and culture that result in higher quality software, including high release cadence, blame-free postmortems, small patches, time for experimentation, automated testing, continuous integration, etc. These practises normally require close collaboration between dev and inf…

I get where the author is coming from. The meaning of "DevOps" is in the name - it stems from a culture of encouraging _devs_ to do _ops_, and rejecting the antiquated separation between developers who write the code and the sys-admins who deploy the code. The term "DevOps" doesn't need retiring, but "DevOps Engineer" does. DevOps is a culture and a practice that allows developers to iterate quickly by taking ownersh…

But DevOps does not mean "devs" doing "ops"! I feel like I'm repeating myself now, but devops is a culture promoting lean-inspired practises to reduce batch size and increase cadence. Go back to the original clique of people who started talking about devops and that was what they were discussing.

I can absolutely see how the name "devops" is confusing and easily lead to the sort of misunderstanding your comment propagates. I don't know why they picked that name. Maybe it was about applying concepts from operations research and business operations into development -- who knows.

Either way, the way I read your comment, it is more proof that the name is misleading and should be retired.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#254
Quite disagree on almost all of them. What does OP mean by retiring a word? He and his colleagues are unable to use them in the right context?

It's so easy to criticise everything and everyone by not matching some personal purity standards or pointing out at inconsistencies, but unless the audience is too young that critical aspect doesn't make you sound smarter, it just shows that either you got less real world experience or you aren't empathetic.

Come on, the whole thing is a cheesy senseless post aiming to be provocative, the author even doesn't understand what technical debt is, and could be because of his professional background in menstruous organizations. In order to understand what agile is, in spite of not matching all of its original goals, one should try to see some old dinosaur alike companies and come back wishing any kind of cargo cult alike agile thing.

Perhaps OP should start to see marketing powered fuzz-words as tools of social transformation that makes all of us evolve into a more "wise collective" by building a common culture, understanding and framework of thought to handle situations.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#255
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find the position of telling people to never point out problems, only suggestions or solutions odd. From something as basic as a management philosophy of "don't come to me with problems, come to me with solutions" to this "Don't suggest terms not to use, suggest terms to use" A person can identify a problem without having a solution, or identify something is wrong without knowing the full solution. So in thi…

It's not that you can't do it, its just low effort noise without a solution. Often times the downsides are apparent and the complaints don't add much without some discussion of alternatives.

we regularly confuse the ability to enumerate the downsides of something as some sort of notable epiphany.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#256
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked on projects drowning in technical debt, it's a very real concept.

It is a very real concept, but as a term it's no longer useful because the MBA's have heard it already. I don't look like a stereotypical programmer (tall white guy with good hair), so I hear what the "business owners" say when they think there are no programmer dorks in the room, and they passionately believe that "technical debt", "code quality" and "refactoring" are all scams that were made up to siphon money out…

Hah. "The business" vs. the programmers. I hate that concept but it's something we must live with.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#257
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a very real concept, but as a term it's no longer useful because the MBA's have heard it already. I don't look like a stereotypical programmer (tall white guy with good hair), so I hear what the "business owners" say when they think there are no programmer dorks in the room, and they passionately believe that "technical debt", "code quality" and "refactoring" are all scams that were made up to siphon money out…

Hah. "The business" vs. the programmers. I hate that concept but it's something we must live with.

Well, remember, they think of it as management vs. (lowly, replaceable, necessary evil) "workers".

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#259

I was expecting "master" and "slave" to show up since I've seen that argument being made ( https://www.eetimes.com/its-time-for-ieee-to-retire-master-s... ), but I have a hard time taking it seriously. I agree about AI though. The rush to exploit the phrase as a marketing term has killed it's original meaning. Once we actually have AI we're going to need something else to call it. I've always kind of liked the distin…

Same (re: master / slave)... At a previous job, a coworker presented a compelling argument for removing "whitelist" and "blacklist" terminology from our codebases / jargon. Even though the etymologies of the words don't describe them as being based on race / racial judgments, their first recorded usages were in the 16th-17th centuries, when mass enslavement was in full swing. Setting aside the historical context, the…

We should not surrender language to political forces. What started with 'Blacklist' is now 'Recession' 'Vaccine' 'Woman'. Read Orwell.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#260
post #8

Strong disagree on "technical debt" Rather, the entire world is built on it and there's some level of acceptance required, but we definitely need a shorthand phrase for "we're doing something stupid that will save us time now and make us hate ourselves a year from now" Edit: thinking on it, also "devops". It's really job title for "sysadmin but paid and owned by the software department to keep ITs fingers out of ever…

> It's really job title for "sysadmin but paid and owned by the software department to keep ITs fingers out of everyone's shit" Most devops aren't really fully-fledged sysadmins though. The job of babysitting software and coming up with SLOs was always the part of system engineering that I hated. It wasn't digging through production outages with strace and tcpdump. They actually defined that as something that we didn…

(and now we're getting "Platform Engineer" which seems to mean "oh fuck those asshole system engineers were doing something productive before other than just being dicks about uptime and production access, how do we get them back?")
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