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Phrases in computing that might need retiring

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Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#231

I was expecting "master" and "slave" to show up since I've seen that argument being made ( https://www.eetimes.com/its-time-for-ieee-to-retire-master-s... ), but I have a hard time taking it seriously. I agree about AI though. The rush to exploit the phrase as a marketing term has killed it's original meaning. Once we actually have AI we're going to need something else to call it. I've always kind of liked the distin…

Same (re: master / slave)... At a previous job, a coworker presented a compelling argument for removing "whitelist" and "blacklist" terminology from our codebases / jargon. Even though the etymologies of the words don't describe them as being based on race / racial judgments, their first recorded usages were in the 16th-17th centuries, when mass enslavement was in full swing. Setting aside the historical context, the…

Purely from a clarity standpoint, I'm in favor of killing off whitelist/blacklist. They just introduce an extra step in figuring out what something is—whitelist usually means stuff to allow, blacklist is stuff to deny, but I at least have to dig that up from memory since white/black don't mean that at all. Exclude, allow, deny, ignore, block, etc. are all more obvious, and in many cases more descriptive. In most cases, simply replacing "blacklist" with "blocklist" helps. Though I have more trouble with "whitelist", since it doesn't directly suggest anything to me; I have to contrast it with a blacklist, and then remember what blacklist means (for authors or actors or whatever), and then map it back to what's actually going on. (For whatever reason, I have less trouble with using "whitelist/whitelisted" as a verb.) Please please use a term that describes what you're actually doing with the list.

Don't get me started on "false positive/false negative"...

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#232

> "Agile: Nope, this one’s in the bin, I’m afraid. It used to mean “not waterfall” and now means “waterfall with a status meeting every day and an internal demo every two weeks”. We have to find a new way to discuss the idea that maybe we focus on the working software and not on the organisational bureaucracy…" Yup. :-(

The term "waterfall", like the terms "capitalism" and "meritocracy", was coined to criticize the (previously unnamed) concept that it defined. "Waterfall" was Royce's term for the way software projects ended up being organically managed by people who weren't putting much thought into optimizing their organization. While I definitely agree that the "waterfall" style of "define everything up front, and then do all the stuff that you defined" is absolutely braindead, the alternatives are unfortunately even more braindead.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#233

I was expecting "master" and "slave" to show up since I've seen that argument being made ( https://www.eetimes.com/its-time-for-ieee-to-retire-master-s... ), but I have a hard time taking it seriously. I agree about AI though. The rush to exploit the phrase as a marketing term has killed it's original meaning. Once we actually have AI we're going to need something else to call it. I've always kind of liked the distin…

Same (re: master / slave)... At a previous job, a coworker presented a compelling argument for removing "whitelist" and "blacklist" terminology from our codebases / jargon. Even though the etymologies of the words don't describe them as being based on race / racial judgments, their first recorded usages were in the 16th-17th centuries, when mass enslavement was in full swing. Setting aside the historical context, the…

imo the more compelling argument is that the first time you hear "whitelist/blacklist" you have to ask what each means (at least I did). AllowList and DenyList are names that say exactly what the mechanism is.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#234

"Full stack" (except when referring to someone who can do everything from CPU design and assembly programming right up to UI work)

Full-stack means you can contribute to code pretty much anywhere in the product’s stack. Why would you have to do CPU design and assembly programming to contribute to an average software product?

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#236
Under AI:

> "actually a collection of if statements but last I checked AI wasn’t a protected term”

This describes an Expert System which has been a form of AI since at least the 70s. If the author doesn't want it classified as AI it's the author that is trying to shift the definition, not that the definition has drifted.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#237
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same (re: master / slave)... At a previous job, a coworker presented a compelling argument for removing "whitelist" and "blacklist" terminology from our codebases / jargon. Even though the etymologies of the words don't describe them as being based on race / racial judgments, their first recorded usages were in the 16th-17th centuries, when mass enslavement was in full swing. Setting aside the historical context, the…

> Even though the etymologies of the words don't describe them as being based on race / racial judgments Then why should we change them? I know you said: > Setting aside the historical context, they also help reenforce the idea of "white is good, black is bad" But if we can't trust people to infer a word's meaning based on the context, we have a much bigger problem imo. Another example of this is the word gentleman.…

First, because there often isn't a context where the word has the correct meaning in the first place. If you have a list of disallowed curse word substrings and Dr. Theodore Fucknuckett gets upset at not being allowed to login, then adding "Fucknuckett" to something called a "whitelist" is using a somewhat tenuous connection to the meaning of whitelist. "Allowlist" is more direct. Also, I just made it up, and I gotta say that Dr. Ted has an awesome last name that I'm going to have to reuse for something sometime.

Dictionary meaning of whitelist:

1. A list of people or organizations that have been approved to receive special considerations or privileges.

2. A list or collection of people or entities that are known, trusted, or explicitly permitted.

Are you giving the word "Fucknuckett" special privileges? Sorta. Is Dr. Fucknuckett explicity permitted? Kinda. His name is, at least.

Master vs slave is different but similar. They are often used in a somewhat strained metaphorical way. There are often better terms. Client/server, primary/secondary, primary/replicant, authoritative/copy. (I don't actually have a problem with "master copy".)

Second, often the only context from which you are deriving meaning is the slavery meaning of master/slave. A master/slave database setup gets its meaning from the master telling the slaves what to do. And once again, it's a strained metaphor, since the significance of the master/slave setup is usually about the data, not the control.

Anyway, the point is that other definitions of the word "master" are irrelevant if you're drawing upon the slavery meaning in the first place.

Those don't invalidate your argument, but if you're balancing the usefulness of terms against potential offense or whatever—well, I argue that the usefulness is not all that high.

Third, relying on the cultural meaning of colors is problematic for the very reasons you cite. I'll give another: Lucifer means "light-bringer". How is anyone supposed to guess which meaning you're drawing upon for a given context unless they already know?

I also happen to be sympathetic to the argument that introducing more negative associations to the word "black" is a problem, given the large number that are already in use. But I'm not arguing that here; I'm just arguing that these words and contexts aren't useful in the first place. And that when the context *is useful, it's very often drawing upon the slavery meaning. (Whether that's a reason to stop using it is a separate question.)

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#238

Sinister used to mean left handed. "A shambles" used to mean a slaughterhouse. Sanction used to mean allow, now it means not allow. It is fine for words to change meaning, even to their own opposite. Natural language has done that forever. Edit: you're all right, sanction has both meanings.

> Edit: you're all right, sanction has both meanings. And autoantonyms are not good. They're confusing and lead to confusion.

"Sanction" has to be an autoantonym. To explicitly allow something is to implicitly forbid whatever is not that something, and to explicitly forbid something to implicitly allow whatever is not that something. Or, at minimum, the not that something in both cases exists in some ternary in-between state.

Thus, any word that exists in this vein is going to end up meaning what is forbidden and what is allowed.

One can sanction a country by only allowing it to trade oil, or one can sanction a country by forbidding it from trading food, clothes, and manufactured goods.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#239
> Agile

> Nope, this one’s in the bin, I’m afraid. It used to mean “not waterfall” and now means “waterfall with a status meeting every day and an internal demo every two weeks”. We have to find a new way to discuss the idea that maybe we focus on the working software and not on the organisational bureaucracy, and that way does not involve the word…

I've noticed that demos tend to lead to "demo driven development" model where software devs write code to impress other software devs, without any real connection to customers, and with the benefit of a decade of time most of those got dustbinned pretty quickly.

Re: Phrases in computing that might need retiring

#240
post #96

Object-Oriented Programming: "Luckily the industry doesn’t really use this term any more" Wait really? What world are they living in? Am I just out of touch or something?

OOP is pretty well defined. 99% of the time it means type dependent namespaces. Class A.foo and Class B.foo both represent separate namespaces in which a field or method foo can be defined, the name space is directly tied to a type. In Haskell every function is defined in what amounts to be a global namespace. This is particularly annoying when you have records that share the same attribute names. You might argue tha…

Is using structs in C OOP by that definition?
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