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France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

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Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#251

Post by acoard »

k8si wrote: post #53
xdennis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be completely fair, assuming the reverse is true as well. That is, being able to sell real cheese as "vegan cheese" to trick vegans into eating it. I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. They don't deserve protection either.

I imagine this was probably user error on your part. The vegan cheese is usually on the other end of the grocery store from the real cheese, and also usually says 'vegan' prominently, and also there are only like 2-3 brands that make vegan cheese (Miyoko, Daiya, maybe 1 other?). And vegans still usually have to read the ingredients to make sure. Non-vegans could probably do the same if it were that important.

> The vegan cheese is usually on the other end of the grocery store from the real cheese,

Usually, but not always. I’ve seen them collocated more frequently of late and almost made the same mistake before comparing price. The text was so small I would not have noticed without price setting me off. It clearly can be deceptively packaged and I would imagine many marketing departments will try if they think it’ll make them money.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#252

Post by ellopoppit »

McBeige wrote: post #200
sarsway wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not people being tricked, but vegan food simply needs proper names. "Vegan steak" is not meat, so what it? What is vegan cheese? Could be anything. It's not very descriptive. When you see seitan or tofu, you know what you're getting.

Cheese is not about dairy or fermentation, it's about that funky cheesy flavour and texture. It's about fulfilling a certain role in our culinary tradition.

>Cheese: a food made from the pressed curds of milk

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#253

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

antholeole wrote: post #246

Does anyone who used to be a meat eater and switched to the plant based meat alternatives like impossible burger actually believe that they are similar? I’m attempting to go vegetarian. Prior to my switch, I used to consume large amounts of meat (partially because I enjoy the taste, and partially because I lift weights often and the protein is easy) but man oh man those plant based alternatives are just nowhere near…

It was nearly a decade after I gave up meat that I first ate a Beyond or Impossible burger, but I felt they had the taste and texture of at least a cheap restaurant burger. Beyond has a more distinctive flavor than Impossible, though, which I would say doesn't really remind me of beef in any significant way.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#254

Post by JohnPrine »

wolfgang42 wrote: post #17
mmastrac wrote: post #5

Not being able to use Sausage is ridiculous. It's a tube of something. It doesn't need to be meat. You already need a qualifier to understand what it's made from.

Since this is a law in France, trying to apply English definitions is probably unhelpful. Here’s my translation of the definition[1] from Dictionnaire de l'Académie française , the official French dictionary: > SAUCISSE (n) Intestine filled with chopped meats, most commonly pork, seasoned in various ways, which is often eaten hot. This does seem to fairly definitely exclude vegetarian options. [1] https://www.diction…

The dictionary describes the way words are used by people; it doesn't prescribe the way words must be used. If the way people use a word changes (e.g. if people start using the word "sausage" to also refer to these vegan products), the dictionary changes. You don't change the law to match the dictionary

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#255

Post by JohnPrine »

Ekaros wrote: post #196
therealdrag0 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d eat fake human meat, why not?

I go further. I would even eat provably humanely produced and safe human meat. Unlikely we will get there due to how complicated the safe part is. But still, I don't see it anyway different from other mammal meats.

Excuse me, what?

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#256

Post by treis »

tommit wrote: post #187
HermanMartinus wrote: post #182

The purpose of the names of these products being "steak", "sausage", etc isn't to trick meat eaters into eating something they don't want to. It's to illustrate what they are. Let's take a vegan burger patty for example. What's a better illustration of what is in the packet? "Vegan burger patty" or "Flat concoction of soy and other ingredients". It illustrates use.

The people arguing in this thread about how they "were tricked into buying something vegan, yuck!" are not arguing in good faith IMO. They are so adamant in their diet and (I'm guessing) feel threatened by the change in recent years. Being vegan isn't really an outlier that everyone makes fun of anymore. I used to do the same a few years back, until the gradual realization came that this is the direction we're clearl…

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gardein-Black-Bean-Burger-Patties...

Why is Black Bean smaller and the same color as the background compared to Burger?

Why is vegan confined to the top right?

It's obvious looking at the package what they're trying to do.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#257

Post by treis »

tommit wrote: post #225
gfsdfdsafdsafdt wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Well yeah, we opted for `milk` because it's easier and I do call it milk in my everyday usage if that comforts you. I did get caught up in the post I replied to though, so I apologize for using a degrading sounding name for milk. My point is, milk is not as clear cut as you think it is: there is cow milk, goat milk, sheep's milk, coconut milk, in German we even have a type of cleaning product that we call a variation…

There's intent too. All of the Almond Milk I buy has the word "Almond" on the package with pictures of almonds. The packages of meat substitutes tend not to be so explicit.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#258

Post by throwawayffffas »

happytoexplain wrote: post #9
jryb wrote: post #7

I eat only plant-based foods and actually prefer unique names/spellings for these products. It can be worrying when an ostensibly vegan restaurant sells something that really tastes like meat and the menu says "beef" or whatever.

I wouldn't categorize "beef" with "steak" and "sausage". The former is a substance, the latter are formats.

That's just not true, steak refers to cuts of beef and sausage to pork products.

There is a reason that sausages made from turkey are "turkey sausages" but sausages made from pork are just sausages.

I am in favor of the ban, when dealing with food we should call things what they are. They can call vegan burgers patties, sausage like things rolls or whatever.

People who want to buy them will still know what they are getting.

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#259

Post by shaky-carrousel »

pkaye wrote: post #21
shireboy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was thinking this is going to lead to some cringey product names. "veak" and "vausage" for the uncreative and it goes downhill from there. Our family calls it "feat" for "fake meat"

I'm trademarking 5teak, 5ausage, Chee5e and Mi7k.

I'd go with "malk".

Re: France bans veggie ′steaks,′ ′sausages′ to describe vegetarian products

#260

Post by throwawayffffas »

Is it me or is the article kind of biased in favor of plant-based products?

> The country adopted a measure banning plant-based products from using the same names as food from dead animals.

Alternatives are "plant-based" while meat is "dead animals"? It's true but a strange choice of words why isn't plant-based "dead vegetables"?

> This has in turn attracted major investment from global agrifood groups hoping to capitalize on a trend towards healthy eating.

Healthy eating? Says who exactly? It's not even an argument in the linked article, the article just says there was a was a move from meat to plant based alternatives nothing about relative "healthiness".

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