Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

Post by Teever » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 9:26 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #207

robonerd wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think a think of the children rhetoric is justified by the data. Only 18% of pedestrian deaths occur at intersections, and only 21% of pedestrian deaths occur during daylight. Of the 6205 pedestrians killed in 2019, only 424 were under the age of 20, and half of those were in the 15-20 year old bracket. The pedestrian fatality rate for adults is 10x higher than that for children (0.46 for 10-14 vs 4.6 for 55-…

> I don't think a think of the children rhetoric is justified by the data. I'm not a proponent of "think of the children", but I also think that urban areas in the United States are largely designed in ways that put them at substantial risk of traffic fatalities. And I think that your data don't paint the rosy picture you seem to be using them for. > Only 18% of pedestrian deaths occur at intersections, You can also…

Post by qsdf38100 » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 9:34 PM UTC

formerkrogemp wrote: post #142

All of these issues with Tesla cars and the stock still trades at 100x earnings. What dumb shit will old Musky Elon do to tank the stock price next I wonder? Is the halo of being the face of all the SpaceX and Tesla engineers' work going to fade away? Probably not. On an unrelated note, just a friendly reminder that the Chevy Bolt is only $26k with 250 miles of range. How much is the most affordable phantom braking,…

Post by throwaway894345 » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 9:36 PM UTC

dchichkov wrote: post #192

jeroenhd wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. Honestly, it sounds to me like this technology should be made illegal until it's fixed. "Infrequently" isn't good enough, especially if it brakes as aggressively as you say. I want self driving to succeed, but Tesla's self-driving tech is just too immature to use on public roads.

The right question to ask is how many rear-end collisions does it produce and how many accidents it prevents. If it infrequently phantom brakes (especially when there is no vehicle behind - an AV can sense that), that doesn't cause any collisions, this might be optimal behavior, given the current level of technology.

Post by lttlrck » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 9:42 PM UTC

fosk wrote: post #171

silax wrote: post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

Brake checking is an exclusively American thing. I can’t recall anybody in Europe brake checking anybody in the 20 years I drove there, across all countries (Italy, France, Switzerland, Austria, etc), people just get out of the left lane naturally, and who cares if somebody goes faster? I will never understand this hostile tension in US roads.

Post by daedalus_f » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 9:49 PM UTC

yupper32 wrote: post #221

throwaway894345 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopilot should be fixed, but the problem in your scenario is people trailing others too closely. If you fail phantom braking, you're going to fail real braking whether it's activated by a computer or not.

Brake checking is (usually) illegal in the US, albeit hard to prove without a dash cam or witnesses. So no, it's not the case that people trailing too closely is the problem. It's the case of the Tesla requiring, without good reason, the car behind them to brake hard to avoid the collision. This is dangerous and (usually) illegal.