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Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

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Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#251
What do you want? Do you want to be challenged? Do you want to be a teacher? Do you want to help your peers elevate? Do you want peers that will help elevate you?

If you want to be a teacher and your peers want to learn perhaps you would enjoy staying where you are. If not, FAANGs, startups, and consultancies (like Thoughtworks) will challenge you.

Or, if you want to feel like a boss and a noob most of the time, start a startup. :)

The point: it’s okay to move on.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#252
post #16

I think you're an above average developer working at a below average company. This could be the root of all your problems. Nothing is more frustrating than working with peers you know aren't carrying their weight. Do you want to be an engineering leader? This is what you are, regardless of your official title at your company. Engineering leaders are judged by how much better they make everyone else. You may hear the…

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#253
What kind of feedback do you give, directly and indirectly? Do you have any former coworkers you can reach out to and ask them "what's it like to disagree with me?"

Example: I'm currently working on a project led by someone that many people at the company know. Today he shared a sketched out proposal for a problem that's been on our team's plate, and I didn't immediately like it. I started asking him questions to poke holes in his proposal over slack but he had counterarguments ready for everything, and eventually I sort of gave up and said, "ok I guess I just don't quite understand the problem."

His response was to suggest a synchronous video chat, which he started by thanking me for challenging his design. This meant I went from feeling like I was probably dumb and just asking things he'd already through to feeling like I was helping in the design process, even if I couldn't see the problem as clearly.

In the end he convinced me that all my questions had answers and my only counter-proposal would be just as much work and more "surprising" (less intuitive?) within the domain, but I didn't feel argued-down. I felt like my challenges were appreciated, which makes me more likely to raise other challenges again in the future, which reduces the odds that he'll feel like he's working alone.

just an anecdote, but I've worked with high-achievers who had varying ways of welcoming or shutting down input, enabling or crippling the teams around them. I see this suggestion a few places in this thread: if you identify as someone with a relentless drive to improve, then maybe it's time to work on your communication styles and patterns.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#254
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Carmack? He's got one answer on stack overflow, limited open source contributions, a few conference talks, no books, no papers. He's known for producing actual results and not for any of the things you ascribe as 10x required.

> limited open source contributions Sure, if literally porting the entire X Windows System[1] to OSX is "limited." Or basically paving the way for Linux gaming/3D development because of his work on OpenGL. Let alone his entrepreneurial/seed efforts w.r.t. Oculus, etc. Also, he spoke at Facebook's 2021 Keynote. C'mon, man. [1] https://github.com/timon37/xwayland/blob/master/hw/xquartz/m...

You pick on the one thing that dilutes your point. Carmack is known and famous for developing software -- not for dicking around on Stack Overflow, etc. He was famous long before he ever gave a talk -- and initially he was terrible at talks -- but he was always a 10x developer.

I've worked with some amazing developers who've created unbelievable products that have never written a book, a paper, given a talk, or done a conference. They are probably the silent majority of 10x developers.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#255

You're at the wrong company. I've worked at a startup, at Twitter, and at Google and each time there was notable "raising of the bar" in the talent I was around. I know there's a lot of Google hate on HN, and it's such a big company it is true not every team is mind blowing, but... I've been there 5 years and I still have serious imposter syndrome and am constantly amazed by my colleagues. I get to work with some cra…

I think it's totally this. In my experience there is variance in how effective the top percentile of developers are at their work, but not nearly as great as the variance at the bottom. There are MANY teams out there where even the best developer on the team could hardly answer any question on leetcode, and some where everyone on the team could rip through every question like a bag of chips. People who call themselves 10X developers have generally not spent much time on the latter kind of team.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#256
post #21

“If you’re the smartest person in the room, you’re in the wrong room.” I know saying this is easier than doing it, but; seek upward movement until you no longer feel like you're the smartest person in the room. I would also add, although it's purely personal opinion, that seeking a solution to loneliness through work is a surefire way to feel more lonely. You say you're big on self-improvement, but are you only focus…

> seek upward movement until you no longer feel like you're the smartest person in the room. What do you mean by "upward"? If it's the classical meaning: you're not guaranteed to find smarter people higher in the organization.

Of course it's not a guarantee, I didn't intend my message to make it seem like it was. I think upward movement has a higher chance than downward movement, though. And considering staying where OP is at is causing issues, I said upward.

I could have said "seek movement until you no longer feel like you're the smartest person in the room", I guess.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#257

Why are you working 8-5? Work 9-3 and pick up a hobby. You only need to outperform your peers, or train them up if that's possible. Beyond that you owe the company you work for nothing. Why work harder, when working harder provides you no benefit whatsoever?

I've had the same debate myself. Honestly, not counting crazy hectic meeting days I could work 9-3 and still produce more than others. The only thing stopping me is the feeling that if I'm getting paid I should be working. However, I know that if I worked 9-3 my personal well-being would improve.

If it helps: Anecdotally 8-5 isn't standard in tech (none of the companies that I've worked for, and none of the companies of folks that I've talked to about this kind of thing have worked for). I'm betting you also don't have unlimited PTO?

More importantly, this is my fav career anecdote:

"You know you've made it when people pay you to be you."

It sounds like you're at (or past) this point. The hours you work don't matter. The value you bring to the company, and the value the company brings to you - that's what matters, when you reach that point.

Personal well-being is one of the things that the company can give (or take!) from you.

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#258

You can shift your focus to mentoring your teammates and presenting at developer meetups / conferences. Simply tell your manager that you are greatly concerned about the bus factor (cite the 71% figure), and hopefully you two will figure out how to proceed.

Strongly recommend conferences. If you're feeling like you need some outside something to continue to progress your skills - which it sounds like you are - conferences are a great place to see talks that'll do that, and meet people who'll that. Even more so if you give a talk yourself!

Re: Tell HN: The loneliness of a pretty good developer

#259

You're at the wrong company. I've worked at a startup, at Twitter, and at Google and each time there was notable "raising of the bar" in the talent I was around. I know there's a lot of Google hate on HN, and it's such a big company it is true not every team is mind blowing, but... I've been there 5 years and I still have serious imposter syndrome and am constantly amazed by my colleagues. I get to work with some cra…

Agreed. If there is a lack of engineering culture, it's easy to feel like you're the only one pushing the envelope, and feel like you're the most productive. I've definitely experienced that, working for large enterprise and/or financial companies.
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