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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#251

Post by aliswe »

bena wrote: post #210
QuikAccount wrote: post #79

Anyone who knows anything about Casey Muratori knows that nice and humble are not usually words associated with him. That is not to say the devs he is calling out are in the right. Frankly, I just see a bunch of combative assholes arguing with each other.

Yeah, DHowett's and LHeckler's responses were kind of dickish, but Casey's own words, tone, and attitude aren't doing him any favors either. Casey happens to be right on the technical issue in this case and people are just glossing over all the ways in which he was also wrong. Now, personally, I believe it was the WT Team's responsibility to let it go as they're representatives of a larger organization and as such ho…

Maybe Casey is an antihero?

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#252

Post by lhecker »

LigmaYC wrote: post #240
lhecker wrote: post #139

Hi! I'm the person who wrote that blog post. If you have any questions whatsoever, please let me know! English is not my native language and "The solution is trivial" was meant sarcastic. The solution isn't trivial at all, nor is it complete, because solving the corner cases is complex. I'd also like to mention ahead of time that DirectWrite/Direct2D is very fast at drawing western (Latin) text without coloring (>200…

Caseys suggestions were pointless because Direct2D is fast at drawing western text without coloring? Didn't casey open an issue because the terminal was slow with coloring ? It seems like you managed to optimize Direct2D with your 'glyph cache' pixel shader but that doesn't mean caseys suggestions were pointless.

I didn't say they were pointless anywhere. They were anything but.

I did say however: If we had figured out a way to solve the issue while we continue using Direct2D, we would've definitely sticked with Direct2D. Since there was no solution, there was only one other way to solve it and it's a way that has many other terminals already do it.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#253

Post by phaistra »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #233
Longhanks wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the Windows Terminal team reeks of this. There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart because they're reimplementing something both Linux and macOS had for *years*, as if the whole world of CLI was waiting for their savior.

> There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart Have you read Casey's twitter feed? The man routinely goes into long twitter thread rants about how stupid everyone else is. His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams.

> rants about how stupid everyone else is.

> His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams.

I missed the part where he is wrong.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#254

Post by aldebran »

lhecker wrote: post #212
gldnspud wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps leave sarcasm out of technical blog posts, or add a footnote to indicate sarcasm? I couldn't tell you were being sarcastic and it seems others couldn't as well. I only found out through this comment. Text is the worst medium for sarcasm since sarcasm is often signaled by vocal inflection or body language, neither of which are present in your post.

I'll try to avoid sarcasm in the future. What I haven't understood yet is what significance "The solution is trivial" being sarcastic or not has on the article itself. I understand it's reflecting poorly on it due to what I said earlier, but is there something that makes the article harder to understand due to this? (I realize this question sounds a bit rude, but I'm genuinely curious and I don't know how else to phr…

I’ll be your mentor for 5 mins.

> What I haven't understood >yet is what significance "The >solution is trivial" being >sarcastic or not has on the >article itself.

If there’s no significance either way it shouldn’t be part of the blog. It adds no value and takes away from your goal of being succinct which you stated in one of your responses.

General (well meaning) advice from a stranger: 1. Always leave personal feelings out of blogs, technical and professional communication - especially the broadcast type communication. We tend to think about a small number of people but a larger number of people without context will interpret things very differently. 2. Sarcasm, irony etc need context and sometimes are also differently perceived by people from different cultural backgrounds. Your goal is to represent your and your teams efforts while helping your users. Everything else will detract from it. 3. When faced with feedback take it gracefully even if it you disagree completely or it makes you mad. You don’t need to get defensive and explain ‘your side of the story’. It almost never goes well.

Also why the hell were there such rude responses in the community post in the first place? I’ve worked at Microsoft before and I’d have roasted my team if one of them responded in that disrespectful manner - even if the community member may have trivialized work.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#255

Post by haberman »

miiiiiike wrote: post #37

Issue: Feeling bad after interaction with OSS developer at . Steps to reproduce: 1) Report a bug. 2) Get called dumb by developers at . 3) Demonstrate that it is, in fact, a bug with examples, test cases, and offer a potential fix/PR. 4) Hear that it’s being “handled internally”. 5) Wait for the blog post re-iterating what they called dumb, talking about how great the team is that fixed it, and see your demonstration…

I think this goes both ways. As a developer at a big company, I've definitely been called dumb or obstinate on issue trackers for not prioritizing certain feature requests, or for not moving forward with a specific design despite explaining why that design is incompatible with other requirements.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#256

Post by mav88 »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #227
miiiiiike wrote: post #37

Issue: Feeling bad after interaction with OSS developer at . Steps to reproduce: 1) Report a bug. 2) Get called dumb by developers at . 3) Demonstrate that it is, in fact, a bug with examples, test cases, and offer a potential fix/PR. 4) Hear that it’s being “handled internally”. 5) Wait for the blog post re-iterating what they called dumb, talking about how great the team is that fixed it, and see your demonstration…

Quoted post unavailable.

You're a liar. The entire thread on github [1] shows that it is a technical discussion about the unacceptably slow performance of virtual terminal sequences in Windows. Solutions are kicked around and debated until a Microsoft person steps in and calls what is essentially a weekend fix a 'doctoral research project' and accuses Casey of being 'combative'. Casey is rightly annoyed by this, closes the bug report and goes on to implement a proof of concept showing his blazingly fast approach that did indeed take a weekend. He's a good programmer, a good communicator and doesn't suffer fools gladly. This blog post merely proves he was right all along.

All your talk of 'narcissistic injury' and his personal motivations for anything is pure projection and tells me a lot more about you than about him. And yes, the New York Times is no better than reading Twitter.

[1] https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/10362

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#257

Post by lelandfe »

krageon wrote: post #117
lelandfe wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it was your code they were talking about, you may feel differently. Blunt, hyperbolic statements like "massively overcomplicated" can feel like a shot across the bow when someone is talking about code you wrote. Kindness and gentleness go a long way in OSS.

> If it was your code they were talking about, you may feel differently. If you do anything out in public, you either develop a bit thicker skin or have a bad time. Frankly, if this bothers you at all that is indicative of a very fragile ego and not anyone's problem but yours. The rest of the world doesn't exist to coddle you and this cultural shift folks sometimes try to propose into that exact behaviour is unhealth…

I think we can simultaneously bemoan the overall state of the public's ability to be kind, and still hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#258

Post by KptMarchewa »

ineedasername wrote: post #194
KennyBlanken wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We admit this feature began with a kerfuffle we caused in the summer of 2021. When confronted with being told our rendering pipeline had terrible performance, we turned inward. We relied on our existing experiences and we leaned heavily on our partner teams’ work to conclude the DirectWrite general purpose renderer was the best fit for our product. We were wrong. As such, we dedicate this experimental renderer to t…

>That is "combative, thin-skinned and hostile to outsiders"? Yes. They reference an apology, didn't actually make one, and it was roughly a year after they were combative, thin skinned, and hostile to outsiders. So their words now don't negate the fact that they were actually those things. And the original now-edited response here was itself still combative, so I don't have much reason to believe they've actually cha…

They do this because OP keeps twisting the blade. He was right, now whatever, maybe find another target.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#259

Post by user3939382 »

meheleventyone wrote: post #187
user3939382 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cut scene to me explaining my new product to a Google VP (hoping to get funding) who instead made a crappy copy and released it 6 months later. Don't meet your heroes.

This really is every org, even if someone starts lukewarm to an idea it can percolate, get established and then come back out again as a fresh opinion without any malice intended. It’s always fun to get your own ideas back almost verbatim.

To clarify I didn’t work for Google

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#260

Post by chilmers »

chrisseaton wrote: post #189
gldnspud wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps leave sarcasm out of technical blog posts, or add a footnote to indicate sarcasm? I couldn't tell you were being sarcastic and it seems others couldn't as well. I only found out through this comment. Text is the worst medium for sarcasm since sarcasm is often signaled by vocal inflection or body language, neither of which are present in your post.

Baffles me that people think sarcasm is a good way to communicate on the internet. You are begging to be misunderstood, either accidentally, or maliciously.

If you limit your communication online to a subset that cannot be willingly or unwillingly misunderstood, then you will say nothing at all. People's capacity to misread is infinite.
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