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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#251

Post by throwaway2037 »

Ansil849 wrote: post #223
l33t2328 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure if this is a serious question, but what would this imaginary law say? The government can only do business with companies who aren’t in it for the money?

How about that government services must be built by the government?

Yes, I feel the same, at least for a lot of things. Certainly, all externally facing websites should be designed and maintained by gov't staff.

From time to time, HN features high quality UK gov't websites. In the last five years, the UK gov't has made dramatic strides on "digital gov't" initiatives that benefit regular citizens. As I understand, most of those sites are built and maintained by gov't employees. This runs counter to the normal, all-prevailing attitude in UK that "any gov't is too much gov't" (or "any gov't that does not directly benefit me...").

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#252

Post by curiousmindz »

sdoering wrote: post #244

Disclaimer: I am a data analyst. I consult companies in regards to ethical data collection. But I also know of black sheep. I don't have a problem with websites measuring what I view, click, add to cart or buy. I want them to be able to see what doesn't work in terms of user experience. And if they do marketing I even want them to be able to see from which source of traffic (aka marketing effort) how many conversions…

Sadly, most publishers are not interested in developing their own proxy solution just for the sake of data privacy. They vastly prefer a ready-made solution that they can just use.

Much of the power of the advertising space come from people (publishers, consumers and advertisers) generally choosing the path of least resistance. They don't have the technical know-how and they would only acquire it if there were enough benefits. Sadly, privacy is not enough on its own.

I think the solution that can solve all that is when a company acts as a "wall" between consumers and publishers/advertisers. Then, that company can protect the consumer while keeping the user experience as simple as possible.

"Sign in with Apple" is one such solution. But of course, it brings its own (different) downsides.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#253

Post by deepstack »

sdoering wrote: post #244

Disclaimer: I am a data analyst. I consult companies in regards to ethical data collection. But I also know of black sheep. I don't have a problem with websites measuring what I view, click, add to cart or buy. I want them to be able to see what doesn't work in terms of user experience. And if they do marketing I even want them to be able to see from which source of traffic (aka marketing effort) how many conversions…

>The problem imho isn't GTM (Google Tagmanager) running as proxy. This would (or at least could) be a data privacy win if done ethically. At least under one imho essential condition: I could be able to run the proxy on any infrastructure that I like. Not only one Google's cloud offering.

Yup that is where rubber meets the road. Would like to offer google as little data as possible. And use as little google products as possible on the web and internet.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#256

Post by misterbwong »

drusepth wrote: post #206
misterbwong wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Called it [1]. It's a cat-and-mouse game and, unfortunately, advertising is just _that_ lucrative. Privacy-minded browsing will help those that care (for now...), but that's an unsustainable option with the current monetization channels available. If a content publisher cannot monetize you, they will think nothing of blocking you. There will be some public backlash against companies that do so and there will be some…

>There needs to be a monetization channel that is 1) good for both users AND publishers and 2) pays just as much as current methods. I agree, but what party would you like that money to originate from? Ads work well right now for consumer-to-consumer (e.g. I create a blog and you view it) because there's a rich, third-party that money can flow from (a company running ads --> money to me) without having to charge you,…

Unfortunately I don't see a good solution either. Large direct to consumer business models like SaaS or subscriptions are really only sustainable at scale, and even then it's dicey. In a SaaS model, the big fish win and we lose the democratic nature of the current internet.

Society has driven the perceived price of content so low that the content itself is worth less than the aggregate audience. Really, in what other space does the average consumer set their price expectations at free AND balk at paying $5/mo for unlimited access to a product?

The only thing that seems to come close to moving the needle towards privacy is somehow pushing advertisers into in-market advertising (think early internet-style site banner ads) and out of programmatic/user tracked ads. There is some evidence that these programmatic ads don't really perform as well as they claim but from what I can gather, the data is still unclear.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#257

Post by 34679 »

gernb wrote: post #81
Teever wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it so strange that if you or I were to do these kinds of things to an individual it would be considered creepy cyber stalking but when companies do it they are rewarded?

Do what? Record who came in and out of your house?

Violate an explicit request for privacy.

I would love to leave all of the blinds on the windows in my home open all time, but I live in a neighborhood. The price I pay for privacy is the cost of the blinds and the action of closing them when I want privacy. When those blinds are closed, it is not in any way acceptable for anyone to come along and try to find a way to see around or through them, even if they're trying to sell something.

Nobody would be harmed in the above example any more than they would be by having their privacy violated online. Nobody is physically harmed, or had their property stolen. They wouldn't even be inconvenienced in any a way, so long as they are unaware of the intrusion.

Now for a personal experience that stuck with me and helped shaped my views on privacy:

Many years ago I walked in on my girlfriend in the bathroom, and she asked me to leave. I was going for something in the medicine cabinet and thinking she just didn't want me to see her on the toilet, I replied "I don't mind" and continued toward the cabinet. She exclaimed "But I do!".

Of course, she was right and I was wrong, because privacy is about respecting the individual's desire for it.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#258

Post by xigoi »

inlined wrote: post #233
gigel82 wrote: post #25

God damn... this is it, this is the end-game. There's no way to fight this unless you customize and maintain blocking scripts for each individual website. Yes, websites could always have done this, but the REST (CDN-bypassing) requests' cost and the manual maintenance for the telemetry endpoints and storage was an impediment that Google just gives them a drop-in solution for :( I think Google is happy to eat some of…

I think the solution will be for ad blockers to invest in neural nets to detect the graph of the code flow for known variants of the script. The software that detects plagiarism will be a good start.

That sounds like it's going to be slower than not using an ad blocker at all.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#259

Post by mtsr »

gigel82 wrote: post #25

God damn... this is it, this is the end-game. There's no way to fight this unless you customize and maintain blocking scripts for each individual website. Yes, websites could always have done this, but the REST (CDN-bypassing) requests' cost and the manual maintenance for the telemetry endpoints and storage was an impediment that Google just gives them a drop-in solution for :( I think Google is happy to eat some of…

I don’t think the solution here is a technical one. This should just be solved by legislation.

Google Analytics has been recently ruled illegal in multiple European countries. And either this already is illegal under the same laws or it should be made so.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#260

Post by eitland »

pmoriarty wrote: post #221
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wait for this to happen. Personally I think we just need to ban all targeted advertising based on viewer profiles, even session data such as IP and geo-location. This in turn should severely limit or destroy business models based on optimizing for engagement, as non-paying users are no longer profitable. It's going to cost a lot of people in ad-tech their jobs, but there is no shortage of demand for IT work,…

"I think we just need to ban all targeted advertising based on viewer profiles, even session data such as IP and geo-location" I'd go further and ban all unsolicited advertising.

Not all ads are created equal:

The other day I learned from an ad that my favorite 6 year old Bergans jacket can be repaired at a shop next to where I work for a price that is next to nothing.

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