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Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

reuters.com

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Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#251

Post by 1970-01-01 »

Chris2048 wrote: post #142
1970-01-01 wrote: post #95

Rules and laws. The virus does not care about these. At all. It does not care about your race, it does not care about your age. It doesn't care about your employment status, gender, religion, disability, nationality, wealth, or anything else. All it cares about is if it can replicate. As we debate and discuss and argue if laws and rules are justified or not, the virus simply ignores everything and does what it has be…

What has this got to do with anything? Beating a straw man "the virus will wait for legislation" while implying all the "debate and discuss" isn't important. Also, the virus does care about the things you mention, insofar as they affect infection vectors i.e. If you don't have the power to avoid situations that put you at risk.

I was making a point. It was flagged for some reason.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#252

Post by kelnos »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #241
driverdan wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? They are not forced. They can choose to find another job if they don't want it.

Coercion is force. Being told to vaccinate or get fired is not a choice it is coercion.

Yes, and coercion is a tool that governments use all the time in order to keep selfish people from trampling over the safety and well-being off their neighbors. Vaccination perfectly fits that bill.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#253

Post by JavaBatman »

aixi wrote: post #218
JavaBatman wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no right to not receive another's germs. If we take your argument to its logical conclusion, then the flu vaccine would be mandated. But it's not. So if you say that Covid is different, then what is your threshold or cut-off for when a medical procedure should be mandated?

>There is no right to not receive another's germs Intentionally coughing on someone is a prosecutable crime in many parts of the world --- What do you think makes it a crime?

You are smart enough to know that intentionally coughing on someone is not what I meant.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#254

Post by orang2tang »

peter422 wrote: post #153
orang2tang wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who took a biology class and paid attention could have told you that an efficacy-killing variant was an inevitability. Hell, even tinfoil hat Alex Jones said the same thing, and was for that specific instance, vindicated entirely. The top virologists didn't just "not take this into account", they willfully withheld this truth of how viruses operate in order to push a flakey, quickly-deteriorating product into…

If virologists weren't talking about it, how did you learn about it? Do you know enough about virology (or immunology as this would be) that I should listen to you over them? If the vaccines don't work, why do people in the real world die much, much less often from covid once they are vaccinated? If you are so sure an immune-evading variant will emerge, why hasn’t one? (There is no evidence at all that omicron evades…

You shouldn't listen and believe anyone solely on the basis of their person. Many "scientists" or "experts" that you might believe in have financial ties and liabilities / political liabilities that prevent them from utilizing their expertise to full capacity. The world, money, and politics naturally suppress truth. The government told you the vaccines would stop the spread, limit deaths, and bring us back to "normal". Have you seen the numbers? Have you seen the quarantine camps? Upwards of 50% of COVID cases in some countries are among the vaccinated. Not mentioning vaccine injuries / deaths which the "experts" have told us are rare, but are bleeding more and more into each person's living reality.

Vaccine evasion is happening, and it doesn't matter whether it's delta or omicron. Would Pfizer pay for a study that proves their vaccines are worthless? Would Fauci, who hands down government money in the form of grants, give a grant for a study that would demolish the pharma companies that he has his money tied to?

The vaccines obviously have SOME efficacy, but just enough to make a product that sells. If someone sold you a new car, and didn't tell you it would break down 6 months down the road, wouldn't you be angry? They polished the car just enough for you to buy, without telling you what lurked in the shadows the entire time.

Virologists knew the roll-out of a non-sterilizing vaccine would end in the scenario we currently have. Period.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#255

Post by HyperRational »

aixi wrote: post #246
commandlinefan wrote: post #211

Wow... I thought it was just tinfoil hat types that were avoiding this vaccine because they were afraid Bill Gates was using it to implant a tracking chip inside them. But if healthcare workers - who actually know what's in this thing - are so vaccine-hesitant that the government has to mandate it to them, I'm suddenly worried whether or not I should think twice about getting a booster (or worse, giving it to my chil…

I don't know if you're being disingenuous, but health care workers is a very wide group of people; most probably have absolutely no idea about 'whats in this thing', and in my experience most doctors are vaccinated --- it's hospital staff that aren't.

He is being EXTREMELY disingenuous.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#256

Post by KineticLensman »

petesergeant wrote: post #30
bko wrote: post #3

> Doughty said the CMS lacked the authority to issue a vaccine mandate that would require more than 2 million unvaccinated healthcare workers to get a coronavirus shot. > "There is no question that mandating a vaccine to 10.3 million healthcare workers is something that should be done by Congress, not a government agency," wrote Doughty. That's a good point. You can agree that its within the federal authority to mand…

> You can agree that its within the federal authority to mandate vaccines, but it really should be a decision made and explicitly endorsed by elected representatives rather than some agency I'm from a country (UK) where parliament has absolute power, but also where the populace largely trusts the civil service. Health decisions, prosecution decisions, and so on are explicitly devolved from the government so that they…

> Health decisions, prosecution decisions, and so on are explicitly devolved from the government

Yes, although UK Govt ministers tend to retain accountability when things go wrong, at least in the eyes of the media.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#257

Post by refurb »

lpcvoid wrote: post #223
refurb wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If personal freedom scares then yeah, time to get out.

Vaccines should not be a personal freedom choice. They are a life saving invention, where did we go as a society that this is suddenly up for debate? Antivaxxers on HN of all places, what the hell.

I’m fully vaccinated but I won’t force anyone else.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#258

Post by curiousgal »

dang wrote: post #227
curiousgal wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is mostly centred around the U.S.

Please keep nationalistic flamebait off HN. It leads to nationalistic flamewar, which is a form of internet hell (fortunately a relatively avoidable one). https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It was a joke but I edited my comment. Apologies.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#259

Post by javagram »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #199
javagram wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you mentioning the CDC? Do you know that the two federal mandates were issued by CMS and by OSHA, two completely different organizations from the CDC? BTW, the law as written gives very broad powers to OSHA and other agencies. This is controversial mainly because one political side in the country is anti vaccine right now.

Ok, then CMS or OSHA. My point still stands. Vaccine enforcement and mandates was not even considered as under their purview. It's quite hair-splitting to say "there's nothing that says they _can't start enforcing vaccine mandates_."

“Vaccine enforcement and mandates was not even considered as under their purview.”

Even if the law as written allowed it? Since the OSHA act and Social security acts that give OSHA and CMS regulatory authority passed, the USA has never faced a deadly virus pandemic that could be combated with a vaccine.

If Congress specifically wrote the law to allow flexibility for new situations it doesn’t make sense to me to argue that because the situation didn’t arise in the 20th century that the authority and law has lost its power.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#260

Post by javagram »

kansface wrote: post #197
javagram wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you mentioning the CDC? Do you know that the two federal mandates were issued by CMS and by OSHA, two completely different organizations from the CDC? BTW, the law as written gives very broad powers to OSHA and other agencies. This is controversial mainly because one political side in the country is anti vaccine right now.

Bodily autonomy is perhaps the central tenant of liberty. There is plenty of room to be for vaccines and against (federal) mandates.

Why reference federal mandates if your argument is bodily autonomy? That would equally apply to state and corporate mandates.
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