The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#251

Post by sally1620 » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #128

spaetzleesser wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has destroyed the Windows desktop singlehandedly on their own. Since Win8 and “Metro” they moved away from having consistent UI widgets like it was in Windows 2000 or XP but instead made the Windows desktop a Wild West if different UI paradigms. Even the ribbon introduced a new UI paradigm that wasn’t available to third party devs. If even MS themselves doesn’t bother to be consistent then developers certai…

Yes. I would argue that it is precisely the obsession with cross-platform that has destroyed native desktop applications. If all you are offering with your native desktop framework is a dumbed-down experience, because it has to also run on tablets and phones and TVs and game consoles and smart refrigerators, then you quickly get to a place where there are few advantages in going native over shipping a webapp in a Chr…

It is not really "obsession", it is economics. There is a high cost with maintaining different apps for different platforms.

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#252

Post by sally1620 » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 2:32 AM UTC

boomlinde wrote: post #127

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #68

It is exactly the failure of Microsoft and Apple to propose any meaningful cross-platform API. Both are fighting to increase vendor lock-in - it is in their best interests that apps written on Windows don't work on macOS/iOS and the other way round. Linux/OS folks themselves are unable to solve this problem on their own and it becomes a mouse-and-cat game. The popularity of web apps helped to reduce the problem, but…

I don't get this. I've used GTK, Qt, Tk and FLTK software in OSX, Windows and Linux. The rest is usually covered by standard libraries and third party libraries. So I take it this approach is disqualified on your terms for not being meaningful, which raises the question about what "meaningful" means. My own guess is that it's a matter of convenience of distribution: enter an URL and you can start using the app.

I use Qt for anything cross-platform. The main problem is that C++ is not an easy language for UI developments. also consider the fact that C++ devs are paid higher that Java, JS or C# devs. Most other UI toolkits are really terrible for cross-platform development.

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#253

Post by sally1620 » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 2:34 AM UTC

boomlinde wrote: post #237

littlecranky67 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very niche, and again only if you go with C++. For most Apps that are not games, using C++ is probably overkill on mobile just so you can use Qt. And you will still have to come up with a mobile optimized UI, as a standard desktop UI layout will just not work on 5" screens.

https://wiki.qt.io/Language_Bindings > And you will still have to come up with a mobile optimized UI, as a standard desktop UI layout will just not work on 5" screens. No tool will magically solve this problem for you. Qt has excellent support for responsive design if that's how you'd propose to solve it. And no, Qt is not very niche.

Qt has done a fantastic job in this space. It is also isn't cheap. It is only free for GPLv3 software.

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#254

Post by sally1620 » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

admax88qqq wrote: post #91

If desktops could make a platform where I can write my app in one language, host it on my own server and get global distribution running in a sandboxed environment then I'd consider it. The web distribution model is just so much nicer for users and devs. No app stores, no install/uninstall process, no access to system internals. I can deploy an app today and just send a link to my friends for them to use it. It takes…

A lot of players entered this space and some are actually profitable companies, but are none are as popular as Electron. aside from Javascript and WebAPIs, Electron is also free as in free beer.

Qt: is truly cross-platform, supporting Mac, Windows, Android, iOS, and even LG TV webOS. VLC uses Qt and is rock solid on all platforms it runs. It is very expensive for commercial development.

Xamarin: run on all major operating systems, and mobile, they were profitable. C# is much better language that C++ or Javascript. They became free to use once Microsoft acquired them

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#255

Post by sally1620 » Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 2:46 AM UTC

bumbada wrote: post #144

Don't drink the Kool Aid. We have been doing multiplatform development for a long time. It is in our company's interest not to depend on a single provider(like Apple, MS or Google) for anything. It is also in those single provider interests to make you depend on them as much as they can, because every company wants to become a monopoly. If you can not change provider overnight, they have a virtual monopoly over you.…

This approach works, and the user experience may be great. But it is very costly to build, and very costly to maintain. Compared to Electron, you need a few Javascript devs to spin up an app that runs on every major operating system AND in browser.

I think economics is the real reason they won. And Google pumped a lot of money in this space, too.

Re: The web is swallowing the desktop whole (2017)

#256

Post by cxr » Mon, Sep 20, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #179

What a lot of people don't appreciate is that a GUI platform is a essentially a marketplace like eBay. There are "sellers" and "buyers". The sellers are the developers. The buyers are the users. Real money is often involved in the transaction. Where do sellers go? Where there are the most buyers! Where do buyers go? Where there are the most sellers! Hence, marketplaces with no physical constraints are natural monopol…

> a company more keen to undermine their own market position

Mozilla.