When patents attack Android • Hacker News Board

Re: When patents attack Android

#251

Post by tedunangst » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 1:40 AM UTC

patrickaljord wrote: post #229

danilocampos wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're doing an admirable tap-dance to preserve your Google partisanship here. Apple may have acquired patents before this but I'm having a hard time finding support for your assertion that they're trolling with those alone. Or even applying them at all as part of their patent litigation, as raganwald has pointed out elsewhere. Consider these patents cited in Apple's HTC complaint: http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/02/th…

Who's doing the tap-dance? First I said that this was patent trolling: > Purchases a patent, often from a bankrupt firm, and then sues another company by claiming that one of its products infringes on the purchased patent; You disagreed, then I demonstrated that it was patent trolling. So, doing you little tap-dance, you're now saying that Apple never did that. Funny huh? As for the patents that Apple is suing HTC ov…

You have still failed to name the bankrupt company, the company sued, and the patent in question.

Re: When patents attack Android

#252

Post by Hisoka » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 2:32 AM UTC

grellas wrote: post #133

yanw wrote: post #77

It's sad that pro-patent asstroturf hijacks serious anti-patent discussions on HN, it's obvious that the HN sentiment towards software patents is that of disgust, yet when a passionate and rare post like this makes headlines somehow a pro-patent sentiment creeps out. Software patents are a joke, just listen to this now famous 'This American Life' piece: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/w...…

This piece really is all about the Nortel patents. Google wanted the Nortel patents very badly but couldn't find enough fellow bidders whose interests matched its own to overcome the concerted efforts of Apple, Microsoft, and others who have a stake in pulling Android down. An interesting analysis of who the winners and losers were in this bidding process appears here: http://www.tangible-ip.com/2011/what-does-nortel…

> Android will undoubtedly survive this attack

Did you have to spoil the ending? Come'n, I was hoping for a little suspense at least!

Re: When patents attack Android

#253

Post by dman » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 2:40 AM UTC

dmethvin wrote: post #170

grellas wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This piece really is all about the Nortel patents. Google wanted the Nortel patents very badly but couldn't find enough fellow bidders whose interests matched its own to overcome the concerted efforts of Apple, Microsoft, and others who have a stake in pulling Android down. An interesting analysis of who the winners and losers were in this bidding process appears here: http://www.tangible-ip.com/2011/what-does-nortel…

> This piece really is all about the Nortel patents. You bet! Nortel is a household name for all they have done to advance technology and for the smartphone industry in particular, I am shocked that anyone could dispute the validity of these patents. We owe them a debt of gratitude for the Nortel PalmPilot, the nDroid, nPhone, the nPad, and all the other consumer products Nortel has poured their innovation into. They…

In fact their track record is so bad that not since Nicola Tesla has anyone gone into bankruptcy with such utter lack of innovation.

Re: When patents attack Android

#254

Post by mendocino » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 2:41 AM UTC

hn_decay wrote: post #193

MrScruff wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Android OS doesn't resemble an iPaq, it resembles iOS. You keep inferring that everything presented in the original iPhone was an obvious extension of what we'd seen before, but it simply wasn't.

>But Android OS doesn't resemble an iPaq, it resembles iOS. Both have significant similarity to a year 2000 iPaq. Full screen mobile device using a touchscreen against an icon grid, onscreen keyboard, etc. The iPaq was a "PDA", however, which somehow differentiates it. I owned one. I know how they are similar. >You keep inferring that everything presented in the original iPhone was an obvious extension of what we'd s…

> Both have significant similarity to a year 2000 iPaq. Full screen mobile device using a touchscreen against an icon grid, onscreen keyboard, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_(platform)

Re: When patents attack Android

#255

Post by Pooter » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 3:44 AM UTC

recoiledsnake wrote: post #234

FxChiP wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(I forgot to mention also that manufacturers and carriers also seem to have a lot to do with the overall interface -- Samsung's stock Android for the Captivate, for example, does mirror iOS quite a bit, while HTC Sense probably couldn't be much more different if they tried!)

You can edit posts on here to add updates. I would say that both iOS and Android are touch enabled versions of this from more than 20 years ago: http://images.yourdictionary.com/images/computer/_PROGMAN.GI... For a truly innovative mobile UI, look at WP7 and Metro.

> For a truly innovative mobile UI, look at WP7 and Metro.

To each his own, I guess; I think metro is ugly and has lousy usability.

Re: When patents attack Android

#256

Post by recoiledsnake » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 3:45 AM UTC

dmethvin wrote: post #170

grellas wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This piece really is all about the Nortel patents. Google wanted the Nortel patents very badly but couldn't find enough fellow bidders whose interests matched its own to overcome the concerted efforts of Apple, Microsoft, and others who have a stake in pulling Android down. An interesting analysis of who the winners and losers were in this bidding process appears here: http://www.tangible-ip.com/2011/what-does-nortel…

> This piece really is all about the Nortel patents. You bet! Nortel is a household name for all they have done to advance technology and for the smartphone industry in particular, I am shocked that anyone could dispute the validity of these patents. We owe them a debt of gratitude for the Nortel PalmPilot, the nDroid, nPhone, the nPad, and all the other consumer products Nortel has poured their innovation into. They…

I am sure that there was no innovation at all in the phone hardware space in the past 40 years before the palmpilot, iPhone, Droid and iPad devices. Right? If only those devices came out in the 80s, we could have had 40G instead of just 4G now!

Re: When patents attack Android

#257

Post by powerje » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 3:50 AM UTC

recoiledsnake wrote: post #231

Steko wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that namecalling posts like this get upvoted because they echo the "general sentiment" of HN. Herd mentality != right.

This is illuminating in a way regarding HN. Regardless of the arguments on patents, there are 2 large contingents on HN, Apple supporters and Google supporters. Thus if this were Google Vs. MS or Apple Vs.MS(with the same arguments like patents(, the arguments and modding would be too predictable... just bash MS regardless(they can't innovte so they sue) and move on with the upvotes for pro-Apple/Google comments and…

Saying of Android's UI that 'it's mostly a pale imitation of iOS' makes me wonder if you have ever actually used an Android device. The UI is similar but beyond the notification system you noted as being different (vastly different, much improved, and what iOS 5's notification system seems to be based off of) the app drawer and management of the home screen goes far beyond iOS's pile of apps.

Re: When patents attack Android

#258

Post by powerje » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 4:03 AM UTC

econgeeker wrote: post #144

nitrogen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software developers, and Open Source developers in particular, have been adamantly against software patents for a very long time. It seems equally as likely that independent developers are taking advantage of Google's predicament to further their own goal of abolishing software patents. Edit: I will add that I personally have done exactly this in conversation. But, in the worst case, Google is exploiting a sentiment…

"Software developers, and Open Source developers in particular, have been adamantly against software patents for a very long time." This is exactly as true as the claim that all scientists support AGW theory. Reality-- most scientists don't support that theory. But proponents of the theory say that they all do, all over the place. And since there is nobody who actually speaks for all scientists, there's nobody to pro…

>> Reality-- most scientists don't support that theory.

Citation needed.

Anecdotally I think the statement about software developers in general being anti-software patent is true, but especially OSS developers - you really think this is incorrect?

Re: When patents attack Android

#259

Post by linuxhansl » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 4:29 AM UTC

yanw wrote: post #77

It's sad that pro-patent asstroturf hijacks serious anti-patent discussions on HN, it's obvious that the HN sentiment towards software patents is that of disgust, yet when a passionate and rare post like this makes headlines somehow a pro-patent sentiment creeps out. Software patents are a joke, just listen to this now famous 'This American Life' piece: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/441/w...…

I will wager a guess that anybody coming out in favor of software patents either does not understand software or has ulterior motives.

To a software engineer it is clear that patents on software are worthless (i.e. don't serve society) and hamper innovation.

At it stands I predict that we'll either have a 5 year all out patent war after which companies will beg law makers collectively to abolish patents on software or have 5 decades of patent cold war.

Re: When patents attack Android

#260

Post by srik1234 » Thu, Aug 04, 2011, 4:30 AM UTC

kooshball wrote: post #236

adding more content for discussions http://twitter.com/#!/bradsmi/status/98902130412355585 Brad Smith (Microsoft General Counsel): Google says we bought Novell patents to keep them from Google. Really? We asked them to bid jointly with us. They said no.

With this, it is difficult to believe and trust whatever Drummond is selling (apple and microsoft ganging up on google).