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The Clickbaitification of Netflix

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Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#251

Post by missedthecue »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #210
wepple wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if Facebook was running our diets, their algorithm would long since have "optimized" its way to junk food for all of us. I really, really like this comparison. If we fed our bodies in the same way we let tech company algorithms feed our minds, we’d have three Big Macs for breakfast washed down with a shot of whiskey and a couple lines of cocaine

When I read that, I kind of thought "hasn't that already happened"? The most enduring symbol of American capitalism is caffeinated sugar water. Our athletics competitions are sponsored by fast food conpanies. We live in an obesogenic environment. Yeah, people with reserves of health, wealth and wisdom can buck the trends by applying time and energy to fighting against the tide but if the average person is falling for…

It's not because there is a shortage of healthy alternatives. It's because people are free to choose.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#252

Post by criddell »

omniscient_oce wrote: post #146
personjerry wrote: post #7

I worked at Facebook for some time, and did a bunch of data work. We had this culture of building something, looking at the results between the experiment groups, and then choosing the statistically more successful one -- i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. This sounds great at first, and certainly is straightforward if you want a promotion. But behind the scenes some of us had this thought that our…

Spotify's UI feels like it has succumbed to this.

Definitely has. I remember when podcasts first showed up. Spotify isn't my podcast player so that is pretty much useless to me. I looked through the options for how to hide podcasts and couldn't find anything. I wish I could at least move the podcasts section to the bottom of the page.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#253

Post by majormajor »

kmmlng wrote: post #64
pizza234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opposite opinion. They're executing their vision perfectly. Netflix is very aggressively pursuing the bottom line, and they're not doing it differently from a drug dealer. It's not random that the term "Netflix binge" exists. Netflix interface is designed to shove content at the users' face at all costs, and in a very disrespectful way. Here there are some disgusting dark patterns: - it took them a long ti…

So they are taking steps which are ostensibly geared towards this drug dealer vision. But is it working? I can only look at myself and the people around me. There was a time when we would go on Netflix binges and there probably was something drug-like about it. But now? I go on Netflix, I scroll around for a bit, can't find anything I would like to watch, and I close Netflix again. The only reason I'm still paying fo…

That's the premise of the article, right?

They used to have all their content come from other studios, and they got to see how well it had done in the outside world at the time they were making their deals.

Now they're producing their own content, many of their previous background-noise or binge staples have moved elsewhere, and their productions are overwhelmingly lowest-common-denominator clickbait. There's still some quality stuff, but it's much harder to find than it used to be. If you're looking for an already-well-known quality show you can search (e.g. if you want to watch The Office a few years ago on Netflix). If you're looking for something new that's going to appeal to you, it's a lot harder to find in their sea of junk. Reviews can get you so far, but Netflix no longer then has any edge on alternative platforms which the reviewers are also talking about.

So the premise of "sooner or later pumping out junk food is going to turn off viewers" seems to click with your cohort (mine as well).

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#254

Post by jellicle »

> "The network’s own research shows that users consider each title for a whopping 1.8 seconds, and that if users don’t find anything in a minute and a half, they’re gone."

It's Netflix's fault this is true!

There's no way to review the content that is actually on the service. I look at an item for 1.8 seconds because I keep being shown the same five promoted shows and I've already decided about them two weeks ago, or already seen them, or whatever. I click off after a minute and half because I'm seeing the same shows and there's no way to find different ones or scroll through all the content.

What these streaming services actually need is a thorough catalog listing with a text description of each show. People will occasionally spend 20 minutes scrolling through that, tagging what they want to see (like the old TV guide). And then on a day to day basis, they'll spend 20 seconds deciding which of the already-tagged-by-yourself content they want to watch today.

All the streaming services are way over-optimized and it hurts them badly. One complete scrolling catalog with lots of ways to search it, lots of ways to page through it, and easy "I want to watch it" tagging.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#255

Post by prepend »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #15
matheusmoreira wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright infringement makes everything ever created available for $0 a month. If streaming services can't do the same, they suck and are failing to compete.

The position that "theft is free, so anything not given away fails to compete" is not a realistic position to argue with.

When theft has a better user experience that’s important. Important because it’s more user oriented than the plethora of poorly designed apps with dark patterns to piss me off but keep me subscribed.

It’s important because it’s the reality.

Today, my janky RSS feed setup dumping stuff to a network folder is better for discovering new shows and movies. I’m more likely to see new content released through my tracker, browsing in 10 seconds than spending minutes scrolling through Netflix, and Hulu, and Prime. Just to see if there’s something new.

These services make it hard to use. I’d pay extra if Netflix just gave me an RSS feed and let me filter it. The fact that pirates are able to do this, volunteering is only part of it.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#256

Post by kenjackson »

dcow wrote: post #249

Here’s what I don’t understand (either about the premise of the article if incorrect or Netflix as a business if correct): why does Netflix need to drive proactive short-term engagement? They don’t make money from ads. If I’m subscribed (I’m not anymore) then their business is accounted for. I’m subscribed because they’re a better platform than TV and when I want to watch a show they have, I will. They’re getting my…

They do have pressure. But here’s my theory:

The big complaint they get about content is that there isn’t anything that is appealing enough to get customers to start watching. Once people start watching a show they usually are pretty happy. But they spend 30 minutes trying to find a show. This is why they implemented the button to pick a show for you.

In short, they want you to start something. They think you’ll like most of the stuff they recommend to you. The worst case is you click nothing and then go to Hulu and browse there.

Note: Every assertion I made is made up by me. Just my theory.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#257

Post by bjt »

mojuba wrote: post #154
m12k wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are instinctively drawn to a lot of things that are really bad for us in significant amounts, because we are designed to fit into an environment where those things are scarce. Sugar, fat, inactivity, "interesting news", outrage. These all steal our attention because that response helped our ancestors survive and pick out these rare but important treats. But in typical human fashion we've now crafted a world th…

Very well put! I have another related theory that goes: Over time, everything converges into mediocrity . By everything I mean products sold to us, entertainment, media, the Internet itself. Look at the car designs of the 1970s and now. Look at cinematography then and now. As soon as marketing steps in and start telling otherwise innovative companies or artists how to sell, things begin slowly converging into mediocr…

I agree with the sentiment that designing a product for mainstream appeal can make it seem bland, but I don't think that goes all the way to "Over time, everything converges into mediocrity."

There are so many things today that are better than in decades past. Computers are unbelievably faster. Electric guitars are much more consistently high quality. Cars don't break down as often.

Maybe the problem is that the word "mediocrity" is too big. It encompasses both quality (which I think is mostly improving) and uniqueness vs blandness.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#258

Post by jbay808 »

dangus wrote: post #167
janfoeh wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I cancelled my Netflix subscription, and went back to occasionally renting a film on iTunes or Amazon. I did that too, and then went one step further, because some fifteen years down the line, online video rental still hilariously, bafflingly sucks. Twelve, thirteen years ago I was still renting physical DVDs. Back then, renting a physical item that was produced halfway around the world, shipped to Germany and d…

You can also do exactly this with Blu-rays and get really stunning above-streaming quality, though of course the selection and pricing isn't as desirable as DVDs. What I'm saying is invest in a USB or internal Blu-ray drive, the extra cost is worth it.

I've noticed that streaming video quality is really bad, actually. Especially when the scene is very dark and grey, like Dark, you can hardly see anything because of the compression. Physical media thankfully does better.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#259

Post by jbay808 »

janfoeh wrote: post #117
yarcob wrote: post #102

This is why I quit my Netflix subscription. The algorithm seems to have picked up the fact that I like watching SciFi and Zombie movies, so my Netflix homepage was this dark place filled with Sci Fi and Zombie movies. One problem with this is that Netflix only has a handful of good SciFi and Zombie movies, and I've seen them all. So the homepage was filled with movies I've seen already, or the dime-a-dozen copycat mo…

> So I cancelled my Netflix subscription, and went back to occasionally renting a film on iTunes or Amazon. I did that too, and then went one step further, because some fifteen years down the line, online video rental still hilariously, bafflingly sucks. Twelve, thirteen years ago I was still renting physical DVDs. Back then, renting a physical item that was produced halfway around the world, shipped to Germany and d…

Plus, for anything other than new releases you'd get the rental typically for up to a week, whereas now it's 24 hours even for a 30 year old film.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#260

Post by bryan0 »

robbedpeter wrote: post #2

Movie posters have used salacious and sensational words and imagery for as long as they've existed. If anything, Netflix titles have been slowly working toward parity to that standard, as opposed to devolving to actual clickbait.

Yeah this makes me feel so old. This is not really different than scanning the box covers at a Blockbuster store or, as you mentioned, movie posters which have probably been misleading for nearly a century.
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