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The Clickbaitification of Netflix

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Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#151

Post by triceratops »

kmmlng wrote: post #64
pizza234 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm of the opposite opinion. They're executing their vision perfectly. Netflix is very aggressively pursuing the bottom line, and they're not doing it differently from a drug dealer. It's not random that the term "Netflix binge" exists. Netflix interface is designed to shove content at the users' face at all costs, and in a very disrespectful way. Here there are some disgusting dark patterns: - it took them a long ti…

So they are taking steps which are ostensibly geared towards this drug dealer vision. But is it working? I can only look at myself and the people around me. There was a time when we would go on Netflix binges and there probably was something drug-like about it. But now? I go on Netflix, I scroll around for a bit, can't find anything I would like to watch, and I close Netflix again. The only reason I'm still paying fo…

> But now? I go on Netflix, I scroll around for a bit, can't find anything I would like to watch, and I close Netflix again.

I feel like I'm in a minority these days. My Netflix list is longer than I can ever hope to finish. I add stuff on before I finish watching current stuff.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#152

Post by wepple »

m12k wrote: post #107
personjerry wrote: post #7

I worked at Facebook for some time, and did a bunch of data work. We had this culture of building something, looking at the results between the experiment groups, and then choosing the statistically more successful one -- i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. This sounds great at first, and certainly is straightforward if you want a promotion. But behind the scenes some of us had this thought that our…

Humans are instinctively drawn to a lot of things that are really bad for us in significant amounts, because we are designed to fit into an environment where those things are scarce. Sugar, fat, inactivity, "interesting news", outrage. These all steal our attention because that response helped our ancestors survive and pick out these rare but important treats. But in typical human fashion we've now crafted a world th…

> But if Facebook was running our diets, their algorithm would long since have "optimized" its way to junk food for all of us.

I really, really like this comparison.

If we fed our bodies in the same way we let tech company algorithms feed our minds, we’d have three Big Macs for breakfast washed down with a shot of whiskey and a couple lines of cocaine

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#153

Post by gruez »

keiferski wrote: post #148
UntitledNo4 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe that's really Netflix's business model these days: nobody watches anything, but it's a hassle to cancel the account, so nobody does it, so lets continue frustration our users, maybe they will stop visiting us completely while never really leaving us. Let's look at the bright side though, we're going to end up with a lot of nice thumbnails.

This is essentially the same business model that gyms have.

That's not really comparable because gyms are significantly harder to cancel than netflix

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#154

Post by mojuba »

m12k wrote: post #107
personjerry wrote: post #7

I worked at Facebook for some time, and did a bunch of data work. We had this culture of building something, looking at the results between the experiment groups, and then choosing the statistically more successful one -- i.e. a newsfeed algorithm that had better engagement. This sounds great at first, and certainly is straightforward if you want a promotion. But behind the scenes some of us had this thought that our…

Humans are instinctively drawn to a lot of things that are really bad for us in significant amounts, because we are designed to fit into an environment where those things are scarce. Sugar, fat, inactivity, "interesting news", outrage. These all steal our attention because that response helped our ancestors survive and pick out these rare but important treats. But in typical human fashion we've now crafted a world th…

Very well put!

I have another related theory that goes: Over time, everything converges into mediocrity. By everything I mean products sold to us, entertainment, media, the Internet itself. Look at the car designs of the 1970s and now. Look at cinematography then and now. As soon as marketing steps in and start telling otherwise innovative companies or artists how to sell, things begin slowly converging into mediocrity.

The semi-formal proof is that because the humanity as a whole is mediocre almost by definition, hence if you want to expand your markets (the ice-cream saleman's problem) you'd grab the middle of the bell curve first: it's where the bigger part of the market is!

I don't know if it makes sense, just something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#155

Post by idiot900 »

UntitledNo4 wrote: post #141
kmmlng wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they are taking steps which are ostensibly geared towards this drug dealer vision. But is it working? I can only look at myself and the people around me. There was a time when we would go on Netflix binges and there probably was something drug-like about it. But now? I go on Netflix, I scroll around for a bit, can't find anything I would like to watch, and I close Netflix again. The only reason I'm still paying fo…

Maybe that's really Netflix's business model these days: nobody watches anything, but it's a hassle to cancel the account, so nobody does it, so lets continue frustration our users, maybe they will stop visiting us completely while never really leaving us. Let's look at the bright side though, we're going to end up with a lot of nice thumbnails.

It was really easy for me to cancel my Netflix account. Maybe 60 seconds on their website, if even that.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#156

Post by [deleted] »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #74
tomnipotent wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The data/engineering/product loops at tech companies favor boosting short-term metrics I think this hits the nail on the head. Leadership is hard, and executives can be many layers removed from the frontline. It seems that A/B tests and family have proven a really effective vehicle to communicate across leadership levels what has happened, why it happened, and the impact it had on the business. I'm definitely guilt…

How might a streaming service be designed to increase user happiness and wellbeing? From a positive design perspective, could certain streaming features give users a greater sense of purpose or goal accomplishment (e.g., mastering a genre) or help users meaningfully connect to others (e.g., seeing what friends have recommended lately)? While measuring the effects of a feature on wellbeing outcomes is substantially ha…

[deleted]

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#157

Post by tomnipotent »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #118
tomnipotent wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> designed to increase user happiness and wellbeing? I have complicated feelings about the roles of business in our lives. I'm not entirely certain that's a metric I'm concerned with them optimizing on, nor do I believe we can even remotely quantifiably capture it in any meaningful with with human-computer interactions.

Complicated feelings are warranted. But is it better for massive companies to ignore human wellbeing? We know that algorithmically optimized digital services can negatively effect wellbeing. We also know that management responds to metrics. I'm proposing that wellbeing metrics (namely, the self-reported effects of services on aspects of wellbeing) should be periodically gathered through surveys. Surely this takes eff…

How do we even begin to define wellbeing? How do you measure it, and do so at scale with statistical confidence? How do you finance it? How do you moderate and govern it? Who does it benefit besides the industries that spring up to support it? I don't think "wellbeing" is concrete enough an idea like business metrics to meaningful act upon in private organizations. Sort of a "road to hell paved in good intentions" concern.

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#158

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

cosmie wrote: post #43
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i do not understand snapchat and their business model. they started out as a sexting app that deletes the photos and that is where it remained for a long time. i remember news of how "deleted snapchat photos can be undeleted" tutorials and i tried to investigate for fun but i could not understand the UI back then and the tutorials didnt work so i dropped it. Apparently its pretty big these days in the kids and they h…

> i do not understand snapchat and their business model. Ads[1]. Initially it was just promotional lenses/filters and required a high touch process and substantial media spend commitment. But looking at that site, they now have a full on self-service ad platform with minimal spend commitment, helper software to make lenses/filters, and have added several other ad formats beyond that one. So they've essentially moneti…

cool. i did not know that

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#159

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

ladon86 wrote: post #58
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i do not understand snapchat and their business model. they started out as a sexting app that deletes the photos and that is where it remained for a long time. i remember news of how "deleted snapchat photos can be undeleted" tutorials and i tried to investigate for fun but i could not understand the UI back then and the tutorials didnt work so i dropped it. Apparently its pretty big these days in the kids and they h…

$2.5bn revenue last year. You've heard of streaks (which were a very early feature), and you've probably heard of Stories too, right? Video ads appear in between Stories video rolls.

uhh.. does pihole have something for it?

Re: The Clickbaitification of Netflix

#160

Post by dangus »

Let's be real about Netflix: after looking like it was going to disrupt the media conglomerates, I now think that all it has managed to do is wake the sleeping giants. Long-term, I am bearish on Netflix. I would go as far to say that Netflix is slow-declining its way into being eventually acquired by a member of the big six.

Here are the issues:

First: it's basically the most expensive streaming service, topping out at $18/month.

Hulu's most expensive plan is $12. Discovery+ is $7. Disney+ is $8. HBO Max is $15. Paramount+ is $10. (All prices ad-free plans)

I think an argument could be made that all or nearly all of those services are offering a better content library at a lower price when compared to Netflix.

Discovery+ especially...holy hell if you are into reality shows it's endless. And it's $7. I would pay $7/month just for access to every House Hunters episode imaginable without ads, lo and behold my dream came true.

Netflix is doing this clickbait stuff because their content sucks. Clickbait is what you do when your content doesn't speak for itself.

Sure, every content business has to make a "headline" to draw your attention. But when you see a "clickbait" headline in something like The New York Times you know you're being drawn into something that can be potentially rich in effort, and therefore the term "clickbait" doesn't really apply. At least there's an article behind the hook. "Clickbait" more specifically means you're being tricked into visiting something that everyone knows definitely sucks, including its creator.

Netflix knows their content sucks, and I'm not sure they care or can think of a viable business model to improve it.

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