Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 722 posts

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#251

Post by graftak »

jackTheMan wrote: post #242
ddvvff wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're also pro-abortion, but somehow I doubt it

I'm not sure how abortion relates to this. But genetically-modified food could be. By living in the US I'm not sure how OP can avoid it, as it is not labeled. So there you go with a long term exposure with unknown effect.

Abortion is another example of

> My right to make these personal decisions regarding my bodily autonomy

and also something that is typically condemned by the anti-vax crowd. The comment implies hypocrisy.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#252

Post by ddvvff »

ReadEvalPost wrote: post #244
mjburgess wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you factoring in risk to others? The aggregate risk of a poorly-vaccinated population is, presumably, still likely much higher than the "longitudinal risks" of vaccines? ie., it seems unlikely to me that vaccines will kill 100,000s (and, with covid continuing, 10s,000s+/yr). Even doing this based on individual preference alone, presumably you have preferences for the safety of (some) others; of your workplace; et…

Yes, of course I think about others. I would never go in with symptoms of any infectious disease. Were I asked to work in a building away from people that are high-risk or are regularly in contact with high-risk people I would easily oblige. There are multiple possible solutions that do not violate my bodily autonomy. I agree with your assessment that major adverse effects are unlikely, but ultimately unknowns are im…

What if you're asymptomatic?

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#253

Post by TulliusCicero »

shrubble wrote: post #83
SlowBall wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your point is? No one is strapping down Google employees to a chair to inject them with a vaccine. They are free not to take it if they chose to do so, and accept the consequences of their actions like any adult would.

I'd classify 'get an experimental vaccine with known possibility of side effects or we fire you from your job' as 'element of force', 'duress', and 'coercion'. Am I to understand that you would not?

How is this functionally different from mandatory vaccinations currently required for schooling?

Companies have a responsibility to provide a safe workplace. If some people are disinterested in avoiding harm to their coworkers, employers are under no obligation to indulge them in that.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#254

Post by colechristensen »

ngc248 wrote: post #213
colechristensen wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One has to believe at some point that liberty is worth a certain amount of risk. >Do you believe that someone's refusal to comply with basic sanitary precautions should take precedence over my and my family and loved one's desire to not die of a preventable disease? Did you and your family get vaccinated? What unvaccinated people do does not affect your risk profile in any meaningful way. Are your kids too young to g…

>>> One has to believe at some point that liberty is worth a certain amount of risk. Others will be taking a risk for your liberty, that is where it becomes unacceptable. We live in a society and individual freedoms must be balanced by the responsibilities towards your fellow man.

This misses the point.

"Liberty" isn't the freedom to put yourself at risk with no consequences to anyone or anything else.

It is recognizing that there must be, at some point, a prioritization of giving people choices that might impact others.

>individual freedoms must be balanced by the responsibilities

Must be balanced not obliterated by "responsibilities".

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#255

Post by sunkenvicar »

In my lifetime I have contracted chickenpox and covid. Therefore I have naturally acquired, broad-based immunity to both diseases. Following Big Tech logic, will I also need a chickenpox vaccine to return to the office?

Sad to see science and reason thrown out the window in favour of politics and groupthink.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#256

Post by howaboutnope »

n_io wrote: post #174
standardUser wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is as much about calling out heretics as it is about health" No, you're wrong, this is about saving lives. Around 300 people died today from a disease that we can stop. 300 more will die tomorrow. Are there perhaps others sub-agendas that some people are pushing under the cover of the pandemic? Yes, obviously, just like with literally every other catastrophe. But the primary agenda is stopping a preventable dis…

About 1800 people died today from another disease we can stop… But it’s all fine because obesity is as American as apple pie. https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm

> A unanimous public opinion tends to eliminate bodily those who differ, for mass unanimity is not the result of agreement, but an expression of fanaticism and hysteria.

-- Hannah Arendt

Thousands die worldwide each die from hunger and thirst. And just earlier, these two stories were flagged off the front page after shooting to the top very quickly:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27986986

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27988737

That stuff about "saving lives" sounded hollow from day one and is wearing increasingly thin.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#257

Post by TulliusCicero »

makomk wrote: post #236
deanc wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a counter point to yours, just as valid, where folks don’t want to be around unvaccinated folks. Maybe they have an immunocompromised relative or child at home. Maybe they don’t feel safe with unvaccinated folks around. This is a game of odds. People keep acting like this is binary. You’re statistically more likely to have and spread covid without the vaccine. I would be delighted if my employer enforced thi…

Honestly, anyone who's genuinely at risk enough that they can't risk being exposed despite being vaccinated - as opposed to the people who were convinced they are because of stupid media culture war bullshit - probably shouldn't be working in an office, because at that point they're going to be at reasonably comparable risk from the common cold. Seriously. The other four endemic human coronaviruses, for example, are…

So immunocompromised people shouldn't be around other humans, because anti-vaxxers are too selfish or anti-science to get vaccinated?

If everyone got vaccinated, the pandemic would likely be over or close to over in rich countries.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#258

Post by TulliusCicero »

shrubble wrote: post #56

From the first point of the Nuremberg Code: 'The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have suff…

And yet, we widely have mandatory vaccinations for other things like schooling.

Your right to bodily autonomy does not extend to a right to put others at risk of harm.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#259

Post by ddvvff »

d4mi3n wrote: post #24
DrBenCarson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck the pushback. We cannot let the worst of mankind condemn us all to death because we don’t want to upset the worst of mankind.

I’m all for getting everyone vaccinated as well, but I’d be really concerned about the precedent this sets. The reasons governments are reluctant to do this is they it sets a precedent for them to dictate what a person can do with their bodies. Saying someone must have an injection, regardless of how well intentioned it is, requires you to be able to dictate what goes into their body. Pretty much the same set of powe…

What do you think of abortion? I agree about body autonomy but it frustrates me to no end to see woman asking for this basic right, even when their lives depend on it and it being denied, sterilization is also not easy to obtain for a woman.

But then comes someone who is scared about potential side effects to a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic crisis, so much so that they're willing to risk their peers and they cover themselves with "body autonomy" arguments, we already live in a country where people don't have body autonomy, it just does not affect you, until now.

Re: Google and Facebook mandate vaccines for employees at U.S. offices

#260

Post by Kiro »

throwawayboise wrote: post #149
belltaco wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowhere near entirely. Not to mention diminished brain health issues, quality of life decreases due to loss of smell, fatigue, long covid etc.

All also rare and not much different from similar effects of other viral infections such as the flu.

Not rare at all.

> About 33% of COVID-19 patients who were never sick enough to require hospitalization continue to complain months later of symptoms like fatigue, loss of smell or taste and "brain fog," University of Washington (UW) researchers found.

Post reply on HN