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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#251

Post by TecoAndJix »

newsclues wrote: post #169
Solvitieg wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that we spend most of our day doing this "work" thing, I find it much more tolerable to view my coworkers as close friends and my career as an opportunity. This is especially easy in such a privileged sector as tech where pay is excellent, office life is compelling, and work is challenging and exciting. I don't know how people survive day-to-day with a perspective like yours. I get that people can get ful…

I’ve worked in a military setting where brotherhood was real, but the only employer that pushed family (I found it to be cultish at the beginning) turned into a greedy soul sucking hell hole.

Some of my best work memories are from the military doing crap work with great people. Everyone just ate the shit sandwich together. Sometimes I miss it but then I remember how awful those sandwiches were. We had a pretty bad “event” at my current employer and as much as I didn’t sleep and eat I look back on it fondly. Something about shared misery builds rose colored memories

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#252

Post by ehsankia »

plusCubed wrote: post #16

Interesting, similar to Google[1]... I wonder if 3 days in-person will be the new paradigm for big tech companies. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/5/6/22422518/google-hybrid-wor...

The subtitle of your very url is:

> While 20 percent of its 140,000 employees will be fully remote

Also, further down

> While Google says the majority of its employees will work from the office around three days a week, it also says it’ll make it easier for employees to switch between offices or to work fully remotely.

Meanwhile, the subtitle of OPs is:

> Employees can work remotely for up to two weeks a year

And there's nothing about full time remote. So they seem quite different.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#254

Post by thrower123 »

ripper1138 wrote: post #205
sam0x17 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny, all of the things you mention are things I would cite as perks of working remotely at my current org. I guess it depends on how you implement remote work. For example we typically have multiple departments running one or more "open calls" all day that anyone can wander into and hear what's going on. Engineering in particular makes heavy use of this, especially those who like pair programming.

Do people join the open calls just for specific reasons? Or do they join all day? An open call is a half decent alternative during forced WFH but it’s not the same. Random hallway conversations are just that: random. An open call wouldn’t be the same unless everyone was in the call all day.

There's a Teams channel that people chat in all day long. I've had to mute it, because otherwise it's just binging and bonging and flashing popups in my face constantly.

If people want something, they can send an email. Those aren't ephemeral.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#255

Post by justapassenger »

jjeaff wrote: post #244
rubicon33 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

Surely there are other reasons to leave your home than work and other people to socialize with in person than co-workers.

Depends on your character, stage of your life and priorities. It looks way different when you’re young, outgoing single person. Vs when you’re older, with a family (and tons of obligations) and introverted. Work is then often a place where you socialize and take a break from all the other stuff happening in your life.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#256

Post by swiley »

dm8 wrote: post #214
swiley wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

45 minutes means an hour and a half of your life every day that you don't get paid for and have to just throw away. (not only that but spending it doing one of the more dangerous things you can do in the US: driving.) That combined with the ridiculous housing costs in the bay area makes me wonder why anyone (especially more numerate people) would tolerate not working remotely.

> That combined with the ridiculous housing costs in the bay area makes me wonder why anyone (especially more numerate people) would tolerate not working remotely. Maybe some people genuinely like living in the bay area. It is a beautiful place.

Is it twice-thrice as beautiful as the rest of the country though?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#257

Post by kiadimoondi »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #126
dm8 wrote: post #65

I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. I enjoy the social aspects. And commute never bothered me, albeit max commute for me was 45 mins (in the bay area). The only downside that I always felt was parking situation. Lot of my friends feel the same about office work. I believe going forward there will be companies (and employees) in 2 camps -- remote first and hybrid…

> I maybe in the minority in this comments section but I genuinely enjoy working from office. In my experience, plenty of people enjoy working from the office. Many of us enjoy a mix of in-office and WFH. The comments sections on these articles tend to receive a lot of projection from people who simply hate their jobs and view WFH as a partial antidote to that. That, and a lot of comments from people who have absurdl…

That's a pretty unfair characterization of people who prefer to work remotely.

However, your last point about letting remote employees stay remote and letting people who prefer office-work to come into the office, I optimistically agree with. It works when everyone knows how to work with remote employees, and that the option is exactly that: an option. This last year and a half I hope has been helpful in getting everyone up to speed on that. It requires a cultural dedication, and assuming people have learned something from this remote experience, they'll carry that knowledge and flexibility with them going forward.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#258

Post by musicale »

jjeaff wrote: post #244
rubicon33 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

Surely there are other reasons to leave your home than work and other people to socialize with in person than co-workers.

> Surely there are other reasons to leave your home than work and other people to socialize with in person than co-workers.

I wouldn't be surprised if people who don't have local family or established friends in the area and live in cities where talking to strangers is considered threatening behavior tend to socialize primarily, if not exclusively, with co-workers.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#259

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

rubicon33 wrote: post #240
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

This is what most of the newcomers to WFH don't understand: There is a big different between WFH for a few months where EVERYONE else is also WFH ... and WFH for YEARS where some, or most, of the others are in office. The latter is years upon years of feeling disconnected, left out, and sidelined. The vast majority of companies even if they allow remote are not remote first. Remote first involves actual structural an…

We have watercooler chats in zoom. After standup, if organic conversions pop up, they are considered sacred.

I have been working remotely for my entire work life (11 years employed, about 5 years freelance) and I am a very happy person.

To be fair, I'm also developed some very strong friendships over the internet (through videogames), so i guess i have a lot of experience in the field

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#260

Post by [deleted] »

treespace8 wrote: post #242
colinmorelli wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think expecting every employee to sit in an office for 8 hours a day every day is almost certainly unnecessary. That said, I also think it's unfair and disingenuous to suggest that there's absolutely no value whatsoever to colocation. It's possible that we can replicate much of the physical interaction's value through fully remote work, but my experience is that we're not there yet. It really depends on the work…

The more I read these conversations it becomes clear your position depends on where you are in the introvert / extrovert scale. Some people get a lot of energy from interacting one on one with others. These tend to be the loudest voices in any office. But so many people who are more introvered have just forced themselves to adapt. I guess what I'm trying to say, for everyone that wants to get back to the office, many…

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