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Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

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Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#251

Post by Leherenn »

jartelt wrote: post #196
underseacables wrote: post #5

I travel a lot because I’m in sales, so I’m constantly in and out of the office. I very much want to return to the office, because for me it’s a homebase, where I can connect with my colleagues. It just hasn’t been the same and I feel that my workflow has diminished without the communal nature of the office.

And that is totally fine. You and anyone who wants to go back to the office should be absolutely allowed to do so! The issue is more with the modest number of folks who prefer to work remotely and prefer not live near a Google campus. If you are a high performer who has manager/VP level approval to stay remote, why would Google HR force you to move back to a Google office? They should just allow some folks to work fu…

To play devil's advocate, managing/being in a team where most people are in the office and a few remote is difficult. There will be a natural tendency to push aside/forget the people remote.

I will be in this position (the only one remote) in a few months when they all go back in the office. I've talked with my manager about it, and we're trying to prepare this, but I'm not sure it is going to work. Also, the commute argument will get worse then. They kinda expect me to come to the office every couple of weeks, and I do not look forward to the 7 hours round trip.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#252

Post by ryandrake »

sam0x17 wrote: post #138
djrogers wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're greatly overestimating the prestige of working at Google, or the value of said prestige.

If you know how to leverage your experience you can literally walk in as the CTO of most small startups if you are an ex-googler and don't act like a drone.

As someone who has worked at multiple FAANG companies, I think that is a total exaggeration. What on earth does being Engineer #56112 at Google have to do with someone's ability to be a CTO? We’re talking entirely different skill sets. What does "don't act like a drone" mean? Show me one start-up that will simply let me "walk in as the CTO". Come on!

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#253

Post by Aeronwen »

0cean wrote: post #231
dcolkitt wrote: post #7

It seems strange that Google management would push so hard on this. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has reported that WFH productivity has been equal, if not better than pre-pandemic. What possible upside could there be that justifies forcing the issue and hurting morale by pissing so many people off? Sure, maybe there's an argument that a fully remote company has a hard time propagating a coherent corporate culture.…

Google did a study that showed in-person collaboration fosters innovation, which is key to success for software companies. This study is why Marissa Mayer banned remote work when she became CEO of Yahoo.

I'm sure it helped make Yahoo what it is today.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#254

Post by ghaff »

eigenket wrote: post #19
eganist wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taking a step back, this is such a broken way of running a department. Why?

I (in the CEST time zone) am currently collaborating with a colleague who lives in Australia, because academics often don't get to choose where they end up. Its a fucking mess, most of the time its ok, we can meet in the early morning here which is late at night there and do most work offline, but when deadlines are looming or issues crop and we have to talk back and forth over stuff urgently it basically cuts the us…

In my experience (and it's probably partly because it's what I'm used to), working between US East Coast and Europe--so about 6 hours difference--works pretty well. And many of the teams I work with are distributed that way. It starts to get harder if you bring in the US West Coast and/or APAC.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#255

Post by BTCOG »

ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #173
kyle-rb wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What grass though? This subset of employees seem to value working remotely above free food or massages or whatever other in-office perks. Work-from-home as a perk has a negative cost, so it's not crazy to think that companies might start offering it.

>Work-from-home as a perk has a negative cost Negative cost but also negative revenue / productivity loss if not done properly. Most data appears to show the hybrid model is the best for productivity. WFH several days a week, enabling focus and limiting distractions. Work from the office a couple days a week to enable coordination, connection, innovation, and alignment. This forced experiment in 100% WFH was clearly…

As an ISP engineer, I can tell you my company has numbers and figures that we are much more productive in networking, applications teams and development, and a handful of other teams across the board by working remotely. Been selling off officespace all last year and continuing to do so. We do work more working from home. And all that said, they know full well what teams should be back in the office and those of us who could feasibly work permanently from home.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#256

Post by ghaff »

intergalplan wrote: post #238
ghaff wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder if the widespread elimination of admins, even shared ones, for everyone below a fairly high level is a net positive. On the other hand, there's a lot more/better self-service capabilities these days and unless you have a dedicated admin who really knows you, having someone else do something for you can be more trouble than it's worth.

I've had the thought before that a "team secretary" for programmers would be a huge productivity and QOL boost. I don't think every single developer needs one, but one shared among 4-10 programmers? Might make a ton of sense. Examples: is it in the company's best interest for an expensive developer to spend a paid hour getting some time-off set up, using company processes, rather than two minutes sending an email? If…

>shared among 4-10 programmers

That sort of thing was common when I was a product manager a couple of decades back. Probably each supported more people than that but they handled a lot of annoying administrivia--albeit as part of much more paper-based manual workflows.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#257

Post by ryandrake »

eivarv wrote: post #242
dcolkitt wrote: post #7

It seems strange that Google management would push so hard on this. Nearly everyone I've spoken to has reported that WFH productivity has been equal, if not better than pre-pandemic. What possible upside could there be that justifies forcing the issue and hurting morale by pissing so many people off? Sure, maybe there's an argument that a fully remote company has a hard time propagating a coherent corporate culture.…

I don't get it either. I actually sat in a management meeting not so long ago, where we all agreed that efficiency and productivity was higher than before (according to our metrics) – and still, one of the people present said that they missed being able to just pop up, look over direct reports' shoulders, etc. The rest of us confronted them with the fact that all of us – they too – had celebrated our progress moments…

> one of the people present said that they missed being able to just pop up, look over direct reports' shoulders, etc.

Sadly, I think this is a huge part of it. Regardless of productivity, "I just want to stand up over my empire and hear the bustle of people in my org talking and doing! Visibly see the movement and activity of My People physically surrounding me, doing Business Things!"

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#258

Post by ryandrake »

m4rtink wrote: post #139
alexwilde wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having read Work Rules! by Laszlo Bock, It does not seem that strange to me... The Google culture and leadership, right or wrong, hold on to the belief that the spaces they cultivate, do more than just enhance productivity. For example, they believe that (regardless of how rare it may be) their spaces create opportunities for teams to bump into each other and build solutions/products out of that.

I think there is something to that - a lot of stuff used to come up from random encounter with other peopl in the company and yet that almost totally absent now. A lot of stuff seems like it is still coasting based on that momentum (eq. people you met at a conference or at lunch) yet new connections are not being made. That could be a problem over time unless people can met at the office again in some form and go to…

I personally believe that the "serendipitous random hallway conversations" thing is totally overrated. I don't deny that it probably once in a while leads to a great product, but how often? Quantify it! Moreover, if your business depends on this element of randomness to provide value, I'd argue the opposite: you have a process problem that needs to be addressed. Brainstorming and ideation should not be dependent on the roll of dice.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#259

Post by xboxnolifes »

me_me_me wrote: post #235
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've seen an exodus from London, people buying houses in remoter parts of the country on the basis that they will be able to continue to WFH after the pandemic is over. Personally I think that is quite a rash decision to make right now.

> rash decision? Maybe they like to WFH and they are good at what they do. If they can buy a house and pay half in repayments than what they were paying in rent, then is that rash decision? I'd rather earn less and have a house and no commute. Maybe its a case of people realising that there are other ways of living.

The rash decision is in the risk of their employer deciding to forbid WFH post-covid and they now have the decision of a a long commute or looking for a new job.

Re: Google's push to bring employees back to offices, some say they'll rather quit

#260

Post by mrweasel »

Xevi wrote: post #121
mrweasel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have a 15 min drive to work, and while working from home makes a few things easier, like picking up my daughter from daycare, the benefits of the office easily compete with the 30 - 35 minute commute. I get better working conditions, better coffee, better lunch and I feel like I’m not alone during difficult tasks. Ideally I’d like to work from home one or two days week, and be at the office the remaining days.

I also have about 40 minutes of commute per day. However I get better working conditions, lunch, etc, when I work from home. Not to mention that it's much less stressful, and I can go lay down in my bed for a couple of minutes if I want to. I also do some chores during breaks, which saves me even more time at the end of the day.

Based on the comments about working from I read, either here on HN or on LinkedIn, it seems to me that people reluctance to return to the office is often based on two thing, well three in the case of the insane commutes some people have. But in general it's either because they work under poor conditions in their offices, or because they have a personality that's ill suited to modern open plan offices.

There's nothing wrong in not wanting to return to an environment that's not right for your personality, or simply a poor environment for any office worker. Sadly I think that those companies who would care to address such issue are the same companies who already have employees wanting to return to their offices.

Perhaps one thing we have learnt is that if you're a company who care very little about the work environment you provide, and don't feel like provide better facilities, then you can do away with the office and keep your employees happy that way.

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