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Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

sciencenorway.no

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Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#251

Post by macinjosh »

jcranmer wrote: post #200
macinjosh wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) That is a hugely inflated numbers. For example, people who died in motorcycle accidents who tested positive for COVID at the time are counted in that total. It may be useful to the CDC to count that way but it is not an accurate number to show how dangerous COVID actually is. Flu death statistics are way down this year. Did the flu magically disappear this ye…

This canard is still being trailed out? Excess death counts are available, and they are even higher than the COVID death counts, suggesting that the official count may actually be an underestimate of total fatalities. However, the claim that that it is "way over stated" is not borne out by the actual statistics.

Your only response to the well known fact that the data has flaws [0,1] is more unspecified statistics. Why should I put any trust in those if I know the death count statistic has clear flaws?

I'd rather our society not be directed based on easily manipulated statistics. It cloaks hidden agendas behind the guise of science and math which is dishonest.

[0]: https://www.denverpost.com/2020/05/15/colorado-covid-coronav... [1]: https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questi...

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#252

Post by macinjosh »

krallja wrote: post #209
macinjosh wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 538K confirmed deaths in 328 million (the US population) That is a hugely inflated numbers. For example, people who died in motorcycle accidents who tested positive for COVID at the time are counted in that total. It may be useful to the CDC to count that way but it is not an accurate number to show how dangerous COVID actually is. Flu death statistics are way down this year. Did the flu magically disappear this ye…

The hospital near me has not found ANY positive flu cases in the last year. It seems like the Covid restrictions (masks, handwashing, and social distancing) were extremely effective at preventing the spread of the flu. It wasn’t magic. It was basic hygiene.

Sounds too good to be true so it probably is not. If that is the case why didn't this 'basic hygiene' eliminate or curb the coronavirus?

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#253

Post by DanBC »

macinjosh wrote: post #252
krallja wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hospital near me has not found ANY positive flu cases in the last year. It seems like the Covid restrictions (masks, handwashing, and social distancing) were extremely effective at preventing the spread of the flu. It wasn’t magic. It was basic hygiene.

Sounds too good to be true so it probably is not. If that is the case why didn't this 'basic hygiene' eliminate or curb the coronavirus?

Because covid is considerably more contagious than most flu strains.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#254

Post by carlmr »

iso1631 wrote: post #226
julianlam wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to hear about your father's suffering. However I feel it's important for you to sound an alarm to the relevant doctors and/or public health units if you feel there's a link between his seizures and the vaccine. Whether or not it was the AZ vaccine or not..

They know he had the vaccine and they know his medical history far more than I do - I'm not a medical expert, they are.

But are they thinking about it right now? Maybe asking them about it would trigger a response.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#255

Post by GavinMcG »

bainsfather wrote: post #241
GavinMcG wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

n=3 here. It's misplaced to be talking about orders of magnitude when a single case would drastically move the needle. If there were only one case in Norway (i.e. 1 in 130,000) it would still be orders of magnitude difference. But that's not meaningful.

If the rate were 1 in 2.3 million, then with 130,000 people vaccinated: p = 1/2,300,000 N = 130,000 Prob(0 cases) = (1 - p)*N = 0.9450... Prob(1 case) ~= p * N * (1 - p)*N = 0.0534... Prob(2 cases) ~= p*2 * (N*2 / 2) * (1 - p)*N = 0.0015... Prob(3 cases or more) = 1 - P(0) - P(1) - P(2) ~= 2.886e-05 Which is small enough to refute you comment, yes?

No. The evidence against the rate being 1 in 2.3 million is that the total number of cases divided by the total number of people vaccinated is a higher rate.

You can't take a subset of the population, find that that subset is out of step with the rate in the total population, and then conclude that the rate in the total population is wrong. The number of cases isn't necessarily evenly distributed, and your model is one that applies to independent random events. But the fact that a case occurred in Norway rather than in another country doesn't dramatically change the overall rate.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#256

Post by carlmr »

SonicTheSith wrote: post #160

Most people here got the math wrong... it is not x of 17mil. but X number of cases for women vaccinated with AZ in the age group 20-50. This kind of thromboses seem to happen mostly to women. While there is no correlation yet found, such kind of thrombosis are until now mostly caused by hormones from for example anti baby bills or other situations where the hormonal balance is not normal. Most that were vaccinated in…

Is there any data on whether the people that had the thrombosis on AZ were also on contraceptives? The high incidence group seems to be women under 50. The same group that is most likely group to take contraceptives.

Maybe two things that cause bloodclots at the same time make it much worse.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#257

Post by macinjosh »

DanBC wrote: post #253
macinjosh wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds too good to be true so it probably is not. If that is the case why didn't this 'basic hygiene' eliminate or curb the coronavirus?

Because covid is considerably more contagious than most flu strains.

COVID is not the virus, it is the disease that results from the coronavirus. The virus is the contagious part.

Sure, but do you really believe everyone was so hygienic that the flu was entirely eliminated in some areas? Most of the trips I have taken out involve at least a couple encounters with people wearing their masks improperly, touching their face, sneezing, coughing, etc. We should see at least some small amount of flu. Zero is suspicious IMHO.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#258

Post by marvin »

GavinMcG wrote: post #255
bainsfather wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the rate were 1 in 2.3 million, then with 130,000 people vaccinated: p = 1/2,300,000 N = 130,000 Prob(0 cases) = (1 - p)*N = 0.9450... Prob(1 case) ~= p * N * (1 - p)*N = 0.0534... Prob(2 cases) ~= p*2 * (N*2 / 2) * (1 - p)*N = 0.0015... Prob(3 cases or more) = 1 - P(0) - P(1) - P(2) ~= 2.886e-05 Which is small enough to refute you comment, yes?

No. The evidence against the rate being 1 in 2.3 million is that the total number of cases divided by the total number of people vaccinated is a higher rate. You can't take a subset of the population, find that that subset is out of step with the rate in the total population, and then conclude that the rate in the total population is wrong. The number of cases isn't necessarily evenly distributed, and your model is o…

This probably doesn't convince you, but as additional data, Norwegian authorities have now confirmed five hospitalizations due to this presumed side effect, two of which resulted in death.

https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/86OmPr/drama-i-kulisse...

Of course, Norwegian health authorities point out in the interview that the ethical consideration will be different between countries, depending on expected vaccine delivery and local incidence of covid.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#259

Post by afavour »

macinjosh wrote: post #257
DanBC wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because covid is considerably more contagious than most flu strains.

COVID is not the virus, it is the disease that results from the coronavirus. The virus is the contagious part. Sure, but do you really believe everyone was so hygienic that the flu was entirely eliminated in some areas? Most of the trips I have taken out involve at least a couple encounters with people wearing their masks improperly, touching their face, sneezing, coughing, etc. We should see at least some small amou…

The actual data does not show zero cases, but it does show an incredible decline in flu infections this year.

There will always be a small number of people wearing masks incorrectly but that doesn’t invalidate everyone that does. And it’s not just masks etc, it’s also the lengthy lockdown, working from home instead of commuting on public transit, etc etc. It does seem strange that a hospital would report absolutely zero but we have no idea of the context. Maybe the OP lives in a sparsely populated area.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#260

Post by tyfon »

raducu wrote: post #242
tyfon wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw the description by the doctor who treated the person who died here in Norway. He called it a "catastrophe in the brain" [1] and the life just could not be saved. It sounds really nasty. Blood clots + low blood plate count at the same time. [1] https://www.nrk.no/norge/innlagt-helsearbeider-dode-_-unders...

Isn't the low blood platelet a direct result of the clots, isn't that expected? Don't the clots need/use up thr platelets in the process of clotting?

I have no idea since I am no doctor but from what I read in the article it's not a common situation. The usual treatment for blood clots is blood thinners. Not exactly sure how they work but I've thought it thins it by lowering the number of plates.

But it seems that the spike protein on the virus/vaccine is quite similar to a protein on the blood plates so if the body has a runaway immune system response to the vaccine it could attack the blood plates too.

The implication here is that this could be true for all the vaccines, there are some similar reports in Israel which do not use the AZ vaccine.

These cases are extremely rare though which is probably the most important thing here. It should not disqualify the vaccines.

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