Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#251

Post by scarface74 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 12:50 AM UTC

emddudley wrote: post #241

ryanSrich wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is hilarious to me as someone that has hired devs from Europe for a while now. Why compete with FAANG trying to pay new grads $300k when you can pay an experienced developer from Europe $100k? I honestly never understood it.

There are a lot of experienced developers in the U.S. you can hire for 100k too, outside the large metropolitan areas.

I can’t think of a single great developer that you could hire in the US for $100K. The few jobs in non metropolitan areas for software developers are going to be WordPress Developers. Everyone else is going to at least leave for the closest metropolitan area.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#252

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 12:51 AM UTC

webkike wrote: post #103

daenz wrote: post #100

Anyone else suspect we are going to see a massive deflation of cities?

Not really, cities offer public transportation and a lot of enjoyable things to do. They were a thing before large corporations were seated there.

Exactly. Companies came to cities because thats where talent wanted to live. Not the other way around.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#253

Post by e40 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 12:52 AM UTC

emddudley wrote: post #241

ryanSrich wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is hilarious to me as someone that has hired devs from Europe for a while now. Why compete with FAANG trying to pay new grads $300k when you can pay an experienced developer from Europe $100k? I honestly never understood it.

There are a lot of experienced developers in the U.S. you can hire for 100k too, outside the large metropolitan areas.

Not my experience. 4 years ago I offered 3 people in the US a job. All declined it. They were looking north of $175k. All were in very low cost of living places. They would live like a king or queen on that salary there. I was offering $125k. It was a very quick conversation, too. Once they knew that, they bailed.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#254

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 12:52 AM UTC

cheez wrote: post #111

webkike wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, cities offer public transportation and a lot of enjoyable things to do. They were a thing before large corporations were seated there.

most people move to cities for work, not for restaurants and things to do. Not all, but most.

This isn't true at all. These tech companies opened offices in cities because thats where young talent wanted to/was living.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#255

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 12:54 AM UTC

dmitrygr wrote: post #112

webkike wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really, cities offer public transportation and a lot of enjoyable things to do. They were a thing before large corporations were seated there.

> a lot of enjoyable things to do That's the thing though. For the next $few years, they offer nothing but a higher chance of infection. All enjoyable things are closed

I live in Toronto and we are already in stage 3 of reopening. Restaurants have allowed indoor dining and gyms have started to reopen. Movie theatres are also open.

Streets are bustling and patios are pretty full again.

I think this whole thing is overblown and we will return to normal sooner than people think.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#256

Post by herval » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

ryanSrich wrote: post #217

cblconfederate wrote: post #162

One thing that is not often mentioned is these threads is how this is particularly beneficial for European workers. They live in cities that are already small and dense, generally don't depend on the office for their socialization, internet speeds are good (due to density probably) and family life is balanced. Plus a lot of them are already accustomed to working remotely. They 'll probably be able to compete for a lo…

Which is hilarious to me as someone that has hired devs from Europe for a while now. Why compete with FAANG trying to pay new grads $300k when you can pay an experienced developer from Europe $100k? I honestly never understood it.

(Not sure if your question is rhetorical, apologies if so)

It’s a flywheel. Investors give preferential to local teams, which leads to teams having to hire local, which reinforces the prices. The big tech that can’t really move or adapt to a more remote workforce pushes the salaries up, local cost of living rises, and the cycle continues. The cost to move from that culture is extremely high, so the salary differences end up being “justifiable”

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#257

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 12:57 AM UTC

colordrops wrote: post #145

daenz wrote: post #100

Anyone else suspect we are going to see a massive deflation of cities?

If self driving cars ever actually work, coupled with ubiquitous remote work, it seems to me that the major disincentives for living far away from the urban center are mostly gone. If you can sleep or working during your two hour automated commute, it would be a game changer.

You can already do that. It's called trains and buses, lol.

Sitting in an enclosed space for 3 hours is still sitting in an enclosed space for 3 hours.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#258

Post by bargle0 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 12:59 AM UTC

I feel like permanent WFH is outsourcing real estate costs to the worker. This isn’t a big deal for some, since one may live alone or already have a home office, but it gets burdensome if there is more than one home worker in a household.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#259

Post by webkike » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:01 AM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #245

stjohnswarts wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm in a suburb working from home. I do not want to ever not be near a city with things to do. I grew up in a very rural area and I hated it. There is a nostalgia uptick every now for the simple life now and then and I remember how terrible it was to be around uneducated rednecks and push it from my mind.

Uneducated rednecks are a bit better than educated rednecks. At least they have an excuse.

I love educated rednecks.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#260

Post by doopy-loopy2 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 1:01 AM UTC

tomerico wrote: post #48

Unfortunately, game theory says that remote work will not stay once people can go back to work from the office safely. The reality is that there is a real advantage in working in person. Whether it’s increased trust, communication, or lower friction. We could see it pre-COVID in a he fact that there are barely any successful remote offices (let alone individuals). This means that employees would see advantages to com…

This.

I wish there was a way I could make a bet that 100% remote will NOT become the norm. Given how contrarian this opinion seems to be, surely there must be some way to profit if I am right?