There are still people who believe Apple cares about the web platform, 12 years after they forbade browser competition on iOS ?
Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
251–260 of 927 posts
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except for iPhones/iPads where you don't really have a choice. Also most people don't give a shit which browser they use, they just use whatever browser is available when they get their device, which makes sense. But those users might soon have their data removed without really understanding why.
So I guess more people will switch from iOS to other devices. I am the creator of a photo editor www.Photopea.com and I see, that more and more people care about their browsers. They spend a lot of time discussing the issues of their browser with me, because they need to do a serious work in it.
You can install other browser frontends on iOS. People just don't know that the backend is still Safari.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I’m guessing that Apple will start hindering web apps because the new mouse support in iPadOS is going to be such a boon to web apps. As a web developer , I've never believed Apple has hindered web development on their platform, purposefully or not. They just don't spend their resources adding in WebBluetooth or whatever new API-of-the-day Google has decided to come up with. As I see it, their focus is on the user…
That’s a very rosy way of looking at it. iOS has had bugs with its “add to home screen” webapps that kicked around literally for years . If they were being “user first” they’d support it fully or not support it at all. Instead they implemented then neglected it.
To be fair, they've had bugs in iOS they've kicked around for years...
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#254I think looking at Apple as saviour of Privacy, is for lack of better term just wrong. They have always favoured closed systems even if didn't provide privacy advantages or as in this case was counter-intuitive for privacy. I feel the comparison of Apple with data companies such as Google, Facebook is by itself at fault. Apple like any computer company of 70's was not into data, just because Internet itself didn't ex…
This is webkit, which is open source. Apple took an existing HTML/CSS/DOM engine, rewrote it, renamed it, and opensourced its version, too. It's compiled using LLVM, which also contains thousands of lines of open source code by Apple. Of course you might argue that these examples don't prove your sweeping statement false, but please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman before arguing.
Open source is not the same as open. You can't run Firefox on an iPhone.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is webkit, which is open source. Apple took an existing HTML/CSS/DOM engine, rewrote it, renamed it, and opensourced its version, too. It's compiled using LLVM, which also contains thousands of lines of open source code by Apple. Of course you might argue that these examples don't prove your sweeping statement false, but please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman before arguing.
Open source is not the same as open. You can't run Firefox on an iPhone.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#256I already have a comment on this subject in a thread here but I believe this should be stressed more explicitly. Apple didn't kill offline web apps. You can always add an interaction to your app which exports the stored data into a file which then can be saved by the user. It can be done entirely on the client side as well. If anything died here, it is the implicit consent by the user for allowing unnoticed storage s…
Dear lord, I hope you don't have any UX design responsibilies. > Apple didn't kill offline web apps. Yes, they did. For an app to work offline, you need to be able to at least cache the app itself. If that gets wiped after seven days, you can't call your app "offline capable". > If anything died here, it is the implicit consent by the user for allowing unnoticed storage space consumption. What about the "implicit con…
Your response sound a little angry but maybe the tone is lost in the text so I will respond in good faith.
> I hope you don't have any UX design responsibilies.
I don't. We are safe. :)
> For an app to work offline, you need to be able to at least cache the app itself.
You can still do it, for a limited time. Your mission critical app will work offline if you are not planning to isolate your device from the internet forever. I know this doesn't solve the issue but I believe it is the lesser evil.
> What about the "implicit consent" that bandwidth is being consumed?
This always bugged me as well. This is unexplored territory for all browsers if I am not mistaken.
> Imagine being prompted to import your data every time you launch it.
I don't have to. I use draw.io excessively and it prompts me every single time. I actually appreciate the experience but I am a sample size of 1.
> More like constantly reminding the user that their valuable progress gets wiped after seven days, should they make the poor choice to run the app offline.
If it is valuable, maybe browser is not the best medium for it. Here, Apple's anti-consumer practice with its App Store becomes more relevant than Safari's localStorage algorithms.
> "I'm sorry, we made a decision to write an app with technology that, in hindsight, we shouldn't have used. Therefore, your user experience will now be more annoying. Thanks for choosing sticking with us while we're rewriting the app!"
"In order for 'Remember Me' to work as you expect, please visit us every once in while <3"
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#257I think looking at Apple as saviour of Privacy, is for lack of better term just wrong. They have always favoured closed systems even if didn't provide privacy advantages or as in this case was counter-intuitive for privacy. I feel the comparison of Apple with data companies such as Google, Facebook is by itself at fault. Apple like any computer company of 70's was not into data, just because Internet itself didn't ex…
I think looking at ANY company as the savior of privacy is a waste of time. Companies have proven time and time again that they are unable to self-regulate this. Only way forward is to introduce legislation that makes it illegal to track users using privacy-invasive practices, otherwise we'll never get rid of it. A company can be privacy-preserving today, but then the leadership changes or acquisition happens, and now they change their practices, without informing users.
I simply see no technological solution to this problem, it'll always be a cat-and-mouse game, until governments catch up and makes it illegal.
I'm eager to hear if someone here does have any solution to this problem though.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is webkit, which is open source. Apple took an existing HTML/CSS/DOM engine, rewrote it, renamed it, and opensourced its version, too. It's compiled using LLVM, which also contains thousands of lines of open source code by Apple. Of course you might argue that these examples don't prove your sweeping statement false, but please read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman before arguing.
Open source is not the same as open. You can't run Firefox on an iPhone.
Before someone says I have Firefox/Chrome on my iPhone; they are just skins for Safari. Same vulnerabilities which exist on Safari(Webkit) can be exploited there as well since they aren't allowed to use their browser engine.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if you don't have connectivity when localstorage is deleted and can't log in? Eg: in a classroom.
What if someone accidentally erases everything because that’s what they’re told when something doesn’t work right? Answer: it’s volatile storage in the first place, and a tiny one at that. Heck some browsers can be configured to erase everything when closed (when operating in non-incognito/private mode).
> What if someone accidentally erases everything because that’s what they’re told when something doesn’t work right?
The difference is that one situation is controlled by the user and the other is not.
Re: Private client-side-only PWAs are hard, but now Apple made them impossible
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
So i can start to manage save files on my disk? in 2020?? this is absurd. apple should fix their safari bugs first before starting with this nonsense.
After the number of times my Firefox and Chromium profiles have been wiped clean due to browser or packaging bugs it's become clear to me that localStorage is not the end-all in terms of data persistence. It's always been a "best effort" rather than a guarantee. Browsers offer a lot of useful functionality, but people increasingly expect them to be a replacement or substitute for an operating system, and in terms of…
Not strictly disagreeing with you, but ChromeOS seems to be extremely healthy. Not familiar enough with Firefox OS to know why the disparity though.