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Why N95 masks are hard to make

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Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#251

Post by raxxorrax »

tough wrote: post #224
sgift wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Noone is even trying to make decisions for Europe... Of course people are. The EU commission works on it, countries talk to each other. Is there a fully coordinated EU response yet? No. Is there cooperation? Yes.

Well our female president Von Der Leyen snatched up a 80mill grant for cureVac in order to avoid Trump luring them to move and secure the covid-19 vaccine for US only. Trump 0 Europe 1

Ah, yes, she exists...

I think she is just half bad and predictable but I don't think it is the best argument for the condition of the commission.

This XY vs Trump shit isn't very convincing and I do believe that it is pretty though for people really caring about politics.

The cureVac thing is suspicious as there are conflicting reports.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#252

Post by JumpCrisscross »

_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

> a country having its own major manufacturing base

American manufacturing output has grown since 1990 [1]. What it’s been losing is manufacturing employment.

Having more people making a similar number of things does nothing for national security.

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OUTMS

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#253

Post by olejorgenb »

ckcheng wrote: post #198
jhpriestley wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stockpiling essential medical equipment sounds a lot cheaper than autarky.

Stockpiling is good as part of the preparation but isn't enough. e.g. "Five months worth of supplies were used by one hospital in six days" [1] How's any country supposed to stockpile enough at that rate? And stockpiles require upkeep and evergreening. Otherwise things like masks eventually expire [2]. Upkeep costs money too. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politic... [2] https://nationalpost…

I've seen this a couple of places, but no-one has explained why the masks expire?

Also - it should be possible to design simple protocols to rotate the stock properly. Storage costs due to increased space is unavoidable ofc.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#254

Post by simonh »

megous wrote: post #250
_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

It also shows that starting trade wars is not a great idea, if you may need the other country's resources in unforeseen future emergencies.

The argument for trade wars is that it encourages more local manufacturing and independence. That doesn't seem to be what's happened so far in the current dispute between China and the US though.

I suspect this is because the trade dispute has introduced so much uncertainty that nobody is willing to make long term investments in infrastructure and capacity, based on what may well be a temporary and constantly changing situation.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#255

Post by coldtea »

nabla9 wrote: post #242
_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

It's not true that US or any other developed country have lost their manufacturing base. The rest of the economy has grown faster than manufacturing. Developed countries have moved into high-tech, high productivity, more capital intensive manufacturing with complex supply chains. If you want to bring back low productivity products into your country, you must accept wage decline, slower growth and lowering quality of…

>Turning the clock back is not a good idea.

Might be a more liveable, more resilient, better for the environment, and for quality of life (which is not the same as "more gadgets") idea though...

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#256

Post by sneak »

_2d30 wrote: post #183
sneak wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that values are not evenly distributed within a country. A nation is not a useful or even approximate proxy for values. Most countries have a pretty big chunk of people in them that would be fine with a religious autocracy that enslaves those who don’t conform to the majority, the US included. It’s the same in every country. There are, for example, a whole bunch of people in the US who are fine with so…

> A nation is not a useful or even approximate proxy for values. I bet you anything that if you polled Saudi Arabians and asked "Would you be willing to be ruled by a monarch?" and then do the same for Americans, you'll get wildly different results. If you are willing to make the bet large enough, I will go to relevant polling organizations to pay for one to be conducted.

> I bet you anything that if you polled Saudi Arabians and asked "Would you be willing to be ruled by a monarch?" and then do the same for Americans, you'll get wildly different results.

To my point, you'd get the same results in both places: some people in each country would say yes, and some other people in each country would say no.

Assuming one's ideology based on their geography is entirely outmoded in the age of global information systems.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#257

Post by wazoox »

nabla9 wrote: post #242
_2d30 wrote: post #13

I do believe these masks are also made in the US, but this situation highlights exactly why a country having its own major manufacturing base is not just an economic need but rather also a national security need. The US needs to invest in itself immediately to rebuild its lost manufacturing base. In economic terms, under certain definitions and assumptions that are typical under modern economics, a trade war such as…

It's not true that US or any other developed country have lost their manufacturing base. The rest of the economy has grown faster than manufacturing. Developed countries have moved into high-tech, high productivity, more capital intensive manufacturing with complex supply chains. If you want to bring back low productivity products into your country, you must accept wage decline, slower growth and lowering quality of…

300 to 800 factories yearly closed their doors in France since the introduction of the Euro. Italy faces a lesser but still steep industrial decline. In the meanwhile, industrial output boomed in the German hinterland of Eastern Europe.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#258

Post by pastage »

brigandish wrote: post #237
hguant wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a conversation I had at a New Year's party not too long ago - a gentleman I'd never met before and I got to talking, and in the process of getting to know one another (however much you can know someone after 4-5 drinks at a black tie party you go to once a year), he bemoaned the issues he was having trying to open a US branch of his company. Apparently medium scale sheet metal forming operations in…

I got chatting to the bloke next to me on a long haul flight from the UK to Japan. He was going there to buy a printing machine (he was a printer) and when I asked why go all the way to Japan he told me that, basically, only Germany and Japan make printing machines any more. He even pointed out that the pulp he bought was from abroad. I wonder if freight companies receive subsidies though - lots of airlines certainly…

Transport is one of the least taxed emission sources there are, in o e way thats subsidies.

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#259

Post by Cantbekhan »

koolba wrote: post #4

> China now makes 200 million face masks a day — more than twenty times the amount it made at the start of February. That’s an insane number of masks. Does one in seven Chinese wear a fresh one every day ? Is this gonna be the new normal?

It's been shown by a few documentaries (by ARTE european channel) that up to at least the 3rd of march and in Beijing, you are not authorized to go out without a face mask (for grocery shopping for instance). Each family has a few "permits" available to go out but facemask (chirurgical type) is not an option for those going.

Your temperature as well as your mask compliance will be checked pretty much at every venue/transportation/shop.

Source (in french): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQD_-2KI244

Re: Why N95 masks are hard to make

#260

Post by Totoradio »

wazoox wrote: post #257
nabla9 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not true that US or any other developed country have lost their manufacturing base. The rest of the economy has grown faster than manufacturing. Developed countries have moved into high-tech, high productivity, more capital intensive manufacturing with complex supply chains. If you want to bring back low productivity products into your country, you must accept wage decline, slower growth and lowering quality of…

300 to 800 factories yearly closed their doors in France since the introduction of the Euro. Italy faces a lesser but still steep industrial decline. In the meanwhile, industrial output boomed in the German hinterland of Eastern Europe.

>300 to 800 factories yearly closed their doors in France since the introduction of the Euro.

Have you got a source on that? The data I can find [1] says 600 total have closed between 2009 and 2018.

[1] https://bfmbusiness.bfmtv.com/entreprise/depuis-janvier-il-y...

from this source: https://fr.slideshare.net/dcousquer/2018-un-ralentissement-e... , slide 5.

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