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Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

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Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#251

Post by ip26 »

lazyasciiart wrote: post #199
jtcruthers wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To get from point A to point B without walking half a mile and waiting 10 minutes for a bus to go a quarter the speed to a stop half a mile from your destination. I'm sure a lot of people want a car so they don't have to expose their groceries or small children to the disgusting mess that is public transportation in the vast majority of (American) cities.

The comment I was responding to was saying everyone wants to own their method of transportation. I'm not asking why you would want to drive - I'm asking why you would choose to own a car if there was an alternate world where all the other cars in the city were available to use on demand.

Availability. I probably want to use a car the same time as everyone else. Price. If there's enough cars to satisfy demand at all times, the capital costs of the network are high which means rates are high.

Basically, a large operation could have economies of scale (in house mechanics, only two models of car to choose from, own the fuel stations...) but the utilization of the vehicles probably would not change dramatically from the utilization of the private "fleet" we have today.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#252

Post by holler »

bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

Very simple, have you ever rode a scooter? Once I took a ride along the beach in Southern California, it was immediately obvious, and, I was hooked! It's a disruptive, perfect combination of technologies, that immediately antiquates riding a bike for short distances. The main problem is that it's too good, and people with poor balance, poor judgement, or bad luck, have been in accidents which ruined it for everyone else.

I could see scooters completely wiping out local ride-share, taxi, and bicycle shares in many places.

But again, people have been injured and because of that, along with the excessive inventory that has littered some areas, cities are cracking down and writing new regulation to curb their use. In the short term they will win and we might not enjoy their full potential for awhile.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#253

Post by rolltiide »

kikokikokiko wrote: post #225
rurp wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why did the VCs value these as billion dollar companies? Desperation? That's my guess. 10+ years of very low interest rates and wealthy people having more and more free cash seems to have led to a lot of crazy valuations in tech investing and elsewhere.

Interest is already negative in Japan for years, and now it's negative on Europe too. The US is heading fast to this insane reality of negative interests too. Since 2008 the FED has multiplied the amount os dollars in circulation by what, 5-10 times? This created this crazy scenario where the Softbanks of the world see a business model that is clearly destined to fail and never be profitable, and still keep pouring m…

> The US is heading fast to this insane reality of negative interests too. Since 2008 the FED has multiplied the amount os dollars in circulation by what, 5-10 times?

> I'm just waiting for this HUGE bubble to explode.

Wait till you calculate how much money is necessary to push US bonds into negative territory. Ka-CHING long 10 yr bond futures, leverage uuuuup if you think the first you said is actually going to happen, because that means bubble doesn't explode

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#254

Post by ip26 »

asdff wrote: post #128
TacticalTable wrote: post #18

Of the e-scooter startups I've tried, Lime is my favorite. In my smaller city (Indianapolis) we just have Bird and Lime, and Bird's restrictions on hours, locations, and parking make them very difficult to use (They turn themselves off if they leave their range, and many pieces of downtown are considered 'out of bounds'). Meanwhile, the Limes are better distributed around the city, easier to park, and have much more…

Too much competition, but really the infrastructure is not there in warm cities in the U.S. They also increased the price so you are more inclined to take an uber or public transport than spend $6 on a bird ride. Riding on a pothill filled gutter while cars clip you at 35mph in LA is not ideal. If there were more bike lanes that were longer than 1 block, these things would be way more popular. Not sure why these comp…

I didn't realize the rates were so high, I'd spend like $3k/yr if I tried to commute 5 miles on one.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#255

Post by JohnFen »

Hasz wrote: post #161
the_imp wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole model of needing to own your own transportation devices is flawed. 9/10 times, I'm moving from one location with many other people in it to another location with many other people. I would prefer not needing to own any medium in order to move between them, but instead be able to use a public service to do so. Bus, tram, metro, citybike, scooter. I'd really rather not own stuff with really high capital costs…

Ah, but public transit is inherently the slowest option. I have no desire to make 10 stops before I get where I'm going. I also have zero desire to rent my modes, as that encourages literally rent seeking behavior. Either we need to figure out how to drop off and pickup passengers at speed, or penalize individualized transport that is space inefficient (like cars). Good luck pursuing the latter in the US; punitive me…

> public transit is inherently the slowest option

This is certainly true where I live -- public transit is the slowest by a large margin. Driving is generally the next slowest, depending on the exact trip. Bicycling tends to be the quickest.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#256

Post by catalogia »

holler wrote: post #252
bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

Very simple, have you ever rode a scooter? Once I took a ride along the beach in Southern California, it was immediately obvious, and, I was hooked! It's a disruptive, perfect combination of technologies, that immediately antiquates riding a bike for short distances. The main problem is that it's too good, and people with poor balance, poor judgement, or bad luck, have been in accidents which ruined it for everyone e…

Like three quarters of American men, I'm overweight. I'd never use an electric scooter because the absolute last thing I need in my life is an excuse to walk less. I'd wager at least a significant portion of that three quarters probably have thoughts similar to mine. Of the rest, most probably drive instead (which for the particularly obese, is probably a lot more comfortable than a scoooter.)

I see a ton more scooters on the sidewalk than I see people riding them. From my perspective these scooter companies have greatly overestimated the demand.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#257

Post by HenryBemis »

holler wrote: post #252
bransonf wrote: post #42

Does anyone actually think this is a profitable market? Electric scooters are expensive, repair and charging is expensive. It’s a seasonal business. Vandalism/abuse is fairly common. In terms of any environmental benefit, I highly suspect more gasoline is being consumed to collect and distribute scooters than the offset of a few last mile transports. I suspect the cost to the consumer would have to double for it to m…

Very simple, have you ever rode a scooter? Once I took a ride along the beach in Southern California, it was immediately obvious, and, I was hooked! It's a disruptive, perfect combination of technologies, that immediately antiquates riding a bike for short distances. The main problem is that it's too good, and people with poor balance, poor judgement, or bad luck, have been in accidents which ruined it for everyone e…

Depending where in the world you are, these scooters are as expensive as Uber for the same distance (in Europe). But you cannot carry a suitcase, it is not safe, you get wet when it rains, etc.

I get that it feels like a 2-dollar-Harley, and once parents realize that their kids are both at risk AND it costs as much as an Uber, I expect loses to grow.

Unless something drastic happens and the cost drops dramatically.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#258

Post by catalogia »

logifail wrote: post #167
mumblemumble wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see personal e-scooters as being a great alternative to cars for short trips such as commuting less than 5-ish km to work, or taking the kids to school. However, I still think bicycles are vastly preferable. With a pannier rack you get quite a bit more cargo space, and in the winter, the fact that you're physically exerting yourself helps to keep you warm, which makes for a more comfortable and pleasant trip. A…

> I can see personal e-scooters as being a great alternative to cars for [...] taking the kids to school If it's close to 5km, are you really going to take the kids on scooters? If it's closer to 1km, how about simply walking? Reality check: we have two (of three) kids in school, their walk to school is just over half a mile, they both walk more or less every single day, in summer and winter and in the rain and the s…

When I was a kid I used to ride my leg-powered bicycle three miles to school. 5km on an e-scooter doesn't seem that far different. That's really not a long distance at all.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#259

Post by xwowsersx »

Hasz wrote: post #127

This whole model is incredibly, impossibly, flawed. 9/10 times, my net displacement for the day is 0. If my net displacement is zero, I would prefer to own the medium I'm using to move. Bike, car, scooter etc. Only exception is stuff with really high capital costs, like planes and trains, in which case I pay a small fee to avoid owning a railway or airline. For scooters, there are no high capitals costs; the cost of…

What does displacement mean here?

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#260

Post by catalogia »

giobox wrote: post #114
jeffnappi wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think e-bikes in certain markets will be profitable as a division of bigger organizations like Uber/Lyft. For example I spent $6 on two JUMP bike rentals last night to get to and from a Meetup. It was convenient and the bikes did the job handily. As a company that only does the bike share, I don't think they will be able to compete with the likes of Uber/Lyft etc.

I used to be bullish on ebikes for commuting, until I started buying secondhand ones barely a few months old on craigslist at steep discounts for my own family. In every case, the owner had a change of heart and switched to a scooter. Why? Because the ebike is huge and heavy, needs dedicated locking, parking etc. Often there isn't room for it on the bus/train. They all found the scooter way better for last mile style…

Usually city buses have bike racks on front. You're not meant to bring the bike onto the bus.
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