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RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

reuters.com

251–260 of 289 posts

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially Delaware and all the other US tax heavens.

Delaware has invested heavily into its courts, to be attractive as a corporate domicile, on features other than lowest taxes paid to Delaware itself. You set up in Delaware to avoid paying taxes everywhere else. That's why non-havens hate tax havens; the havens are stealing milk from their herds. Delaware, Nevada, New Mexico, et al. make it easy to set up shell companies. Multiple layers of corporate veils make it ea…

Delaware isn't business friendly; it's shareholder friendly, which is why investors prefer Delaware incorporation. Of more concern to shareholders than the prospect of big gains is the risk of waste and embezzlement, and preventing that requires transparency and accountability (both literally and figuratively) much greater than required by your typical fraud promoting tax haven.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't normally invade. It's far more efficient to destabilize and prop up the preferred military junta.

Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq.

But is that the norm? Cuba, Panama, Syria, Egypt, Iraq v Iran, Ukraine, Libya, Yemen, Somalia. The US takes sides all over the planet; Sometimes the US backs a 'state' and sometimes the US backs 'rebels.'

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#253
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The US truly are the bully in the room." The world is a very fragile, dynamic balance of power and the US is the only thing holding it together. Despite many grievances, it's sad to see people fail to grasp this.

Such complete rubbish. The US is the country causing the chaos, not keeping the order. This is a lie America keeps telling its own citizens to justify American power abuse, aimed at nothing but maintaining the American empire. Those 80 military bases around the world are not to maintain peace, but to maintain American commercial and military interests.

This is wrong to the point that it's sometimes worrisome, the amount of arbitrary 'anti police' and 'anti Americanism' etc. here on HN and in other places that clouds otherwise intelligent judgement.

I often wonder about the roots of this; of course 'the police' or 'America' have many faults, it's easy to point them out, but I'm always perplexed by those that can't see the bigger picture.

As though it needs to be articulated - the US doesn't really gain a lot from it's military expenditures, or '80 bases' around the world. But the world would be in chaos without them.

To start, 'high seas' (including the Suez Canal, the Gulf, and the Panama Canal) are currently open to anyone only due to US power. Particularly those 'strategic spots' - it is America that makes sure that anyone can use them. China, Russia, Iran - anyone. They're open, and free. The same cannot be said if antagonising powers like China, or local fiefdoms like a Panamanian populist to take over.

The entire world takes the concept of 'open, navigable waters' for granted, but this would not be the case were there not a force to ensure that this happened.

In Europe, the US is the only power preventing Russian Imperial expansion. Putin has already tried to 'pull a Crimea' in the Baltic states, it was only coordination by American-led NATO that enabled their defence. Even to this day, Europeans are very poorly coordinated on the issue. Ukraine would be fully under Putin's control, and Russia would be creeping into Poland. Georgia would have been invaded when the Russians occupied South Ossetia.

In Asia, we can see most recently the attempt by China to take exclusive control of vast ocean territories off the coast of Philipines, Vietnam etc. - only America has the power to ensure that this area will generally stay open.

S. Korea would not be a state without American power, it's possible that Japan would not, and certainly not Taiwan.

More contentiously, the US holds some authoritarian powers together, but even then it's for the greater good. Most obviously Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, but even Qatar, Bahrain, UAE fall in this camp. These aren't the nicest states, but they are generally 'good players' on the international scene, they mostly help fight against terrorism, and they sell their Oil on the international markets and market prices. Without US support none of those countries would exist as such. We saw what Saddam did in Kuwait, and there's no reason to believe he would have stopped there. In particular, the Iranians have been trying to very seriously destabilise those countries for some time by providing weapons, political cover, training, and support.

And that's just scratching the surface; without the US the high seas would not be open and navigable, the Suez/Panama/Gulf would be controlled by petty fiefs or hostile powers, large parts of Eastern Europe would be back in the Russian Empire and Putin would have that much more ability to antagonise, at very least Korea and Taiwan would not exist, and there'd likely be more hostility over there, and the Middle East would be unrecognisable, the hostilities would be far worse than they are today. And again - those are just the obvious areas - but if those dominos were to fall, so many others would. In short, a 'world without America' would be a dark and hostile place, there is no other leadership on the world stage that has the power to ensure the stability we have right now. Europe could, but they're not willing.

Americans gain a little bit in terms of prestige, access to some foreign markets, and their own security, but frankly it's just not enough to justify in hard terms.

Without the incredible goodwill of Americans the 'balance of internal political power' of their foreign policy would be such that they would have left the Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, Lithuanians, Polish etc. in the wind, long ago.

In the 1990s it was looking like the American led world order would melt into democracy, but it's not going to be that way at least for the time being.

FYI I'm not American.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think standards development should be open, so Switzerland is the ideal host in any geopolitical situation. Otherwise, I do think the American economy could benefit from restrictions on imports. It's called import substitution economics, which worked very well for american steel back in the late 19th century. Not sure if it'll work again though. Things are different now.

Tariffs and other protectionary measures make much more sense for developing countries than for developed countries. Developing countries want to protect their fledgling industries from much stronger competition from the developed world. This hurts consumers in developing countries, who are forced to buy substandard domestic products at higher prices. Developed countries want as free of trade as possible, so that the…

That would be more true if domestic labor was on a more even playing field with global competitors. As it stands, domestic labor is expensive: not just because of wages and benefits, but also health and safety regulations, legal liabilities, etc.

I'm not saying we necessarily need to roll back those protections, but it's worth mentioning out that as the cost of hiring domestic labor in developed countries go up, companies begin to off-shore labor as soon as they are able.

My point is that we already don't have "free trade". The question is whether tariffs are a good way to balance the scales between domestic and foreign labor.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#255

> wants to ensure that universities, governments and companies outside the United States can help develop its open-source technology Read as: > wants to ensure that China... Let me see if I understand this correctly. US tax dollars funded (in part, via UC Berkeley) this technology, and now this organization is moving outside of the US specifically so that it can work with China in ways that the US would not appreciat…

People are cheering it on because there are no viable openly licensed ISAs besides RISC-V and the alternative to this move is RISC-V being crippled due to sanctions. Anybody in the US is just as free to use the ISA, and designs and fab IP can still be proprietary in whatever country.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#256
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delaware has invested heavily into its courts, to be attractive as a corporate domicile, on features other than lowest taxes paid to Delaware itself. You set up in Delaware to avoid paying taxes everywhere else. That's why non-havens hate tax havens; the havens are stealing milk from their herds. Delaware, Nevada, New Mexico, et al. make it easy to set up shell companies. Multiple layers of corporate veils make it ea…

Delaware isn't business friendly; it's shareholder friendly, which is why investors prefer Delaware incorporation. Of more concern to shareholders than the prospect of big gains is the risk of waste and embezzlement, and preventing that requires transparency and accountability (both literally and figuratively) much greater than required by your typical fraud promoting tax haven.

Also, the US did not adopt the Common Reporting Standard from the OECD in the wake of the Panama Papers leak. So it does not report banking activity happening inside to the US to other countries.

The Paradise Papers may spur additional legislative action, pending the results of the 2020 elections.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#257
Switzerland isn't a magical neutral land on Earth. It's a neutral place from the point of view of Europe because its terrain is difficult to practice for troops.

On a virtual level (software, intellectual, legal), Switzerland is not more neutral than any other small country on Earth. It could have been Iceland.

Automatically centralizing to Switzerland everything considered 'neutral' (neutrality is a debatable concept btw) is risky, stereotyping and doesn't look legit.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#258
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link doesn't actually mention the US at all? It points to a single example involving Zambia and China, which is definitely bad. There are an awfully long list of those around the world. That's what I mean - if you go looking for incidents where the Chinese are involved and build up a prosecution argument against them, that's a very different approach to trying to systematically and without favour deal with all h…

I'm saying that China consistently does a worse job of handling human rights than the United States. The post WWII global economic order has been mostly on the US; recently China has started to push out into Africa, plundering their fishing stocks and practicing neo-colonialism. I'm looking for places where China is pushing into an existing economic order and noticing how humans rights standards generally go backward…

> recently China has started to push out into Africa, plundering their fishing stocks and practicing neo-colonialism

Do you have any idea about the history of the United States in Africa? The overthrow and murder of the first elected President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo and the installation of an American-friendly dictator. Support for the coup that overthrew the first elected President of Ghana and replaced him with a military government. Opposition to Angolan independence from the Portuguese empire. Support for the Apartheid regime in South Africa.

And you're comparing this to what? Chinese companies overfishing in African coastal waters? You're really lacking a sense of perspective here.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#259
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> USA protectionism Is it just maybe possible that the US public is waking up to the ongoing genocide, ethnic cleansings, and widespread human rights violations in China, which may lead to the state being sanctioned like so many other despicable regimes?

No, because then US would stop doing business with Saudi-Arabia.

The fact that you consider the two similar betrays some pretty serious ignorance.

Re: RISC-V Foundation moving to Switzerland over trade curb fears

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tariffs and other protectionary measures make much more sense for developing countries than for developed countries. Developing countries want to protect their fledgling industries from much stronger competition from the developed world. This hurts consumers in developing countries, who are forced to buy substandard domestic products at higher prices. Developed countries want as free of trade as possible, so that the…

That would be more true if domestic labor was on a more even playing field with global competitors. As it stands, domestic labor is expensive: not just because of wages and benefits, but also health and safety regulations, legal liabilities, etc. I'm not saying we necessarily need to roll back those protections, but it's worth mentioning out that as the cost of hiring domestic labor in developed countries go up, comp…

> as the cost of hiring domestic labor in developed countries go up, companies begin to off-shore labor as soon as they are able.

Productivity of labor is also much higher in developed countries. What matters is comparative advantage.

Even from a strictly economic point of view, it is often better for rich countries to off-shore a lot of low-level manufacturing. That decreases prices for manufactured goods in rich countries and frees labor for more productive jobs. If you somehow force companies to bring back manufacturing jobs to the US, two things will have to happen:

1. Prices will increase for consumers.

2. People will be transferred from their current jobs to the new manufacturing jobs. You may actually be transferring people from more useful, productive labor into less productive labor, leaving the entire society worse off.

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