Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers • Hacker News Board

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#251

Post by shkkmo » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

physicsguy wrote: post #57

shkkmo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does only cover "package holidays" and not all round-trip air tickets? That distinction doesn't make sense except as a subsidy of package deal providers...

It’s not a subsidy; the companies which sell package holidays need to put the cash up. It was done because of financially unstable package holiday companies setting up and then failing leaving people stranded. Most people in the UK know to buy an ‘ATOL Protected’ holiday if they go for a package deal.

That doesn't answer my question at all.

Why doesn't ATOL protect non-package customers of Thomas Cook airlines? Why didn't it protect the customers of Monarch Airlines? Given the large number of airlines that have collapsed and stranded customers in the last couple of years, the "holiday package" limitation just doesn't make sense.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#252

Post by Scoundreller » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:24 PM UTC

cjrp wrote: post #246

mcv wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are extra planes even necessary? There were already return flights planned, right? Why not have those fly anyway? Maybe they're owned by Thomas Cook and the crew won't get paid anymore, but it'd be nice if the government could step in and let those parts of the company continue operating until every is home again. That's much less disruptive than keeping the original planes grounded, and chartering different plan…

Would you take a plane flown by two pilots who have just been told they've lost their jobs?

What do you call a pilot on their last day? Your pilot ;)

I’m sure it happens more often than you think.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#253

Post by hnarn » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #90

hnarn wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But what happens if they declare bankruptcy on you way back ? Buy your plane tickets with a credit card, ask your credit company for the money back, buy another ticket. This is one of the main advantages of using a credit card: the credit company will absorb the debts of the third party (the airline, in this example).

Sure, and hope that you aren't on a strict budget and the return flight doesn't cost a lot more. Oh, and that the credit comes in a timely manner and you aren't waiting until monday/tuesday because friday evening isn't a business day.

> and hope that you aren't on a strict budget

If you have a credit card and you're still on a tight budget, you're using credit cards the wrong way: i.e. the way most people use them. Use them like a debit card and you'll be fine, and in emergencies you have credit to dip into.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#254

Post by distances » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:27 PM UTC

DrJokepu wrote: post #242

markh wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This brings back memories... I was the technical half of a two person team who built the very first Thomas Cook website in 1995. Of course, e-commerce was a step too far at the time, but there was much excitement when the spec for HTML frames came out mid-project (don’t judge).

There’s no shame in HTML frames in 1995.

Frames reloading in background is how I managed to create some interactivity before XMLHttpRequest. No idea if there would have been some better way at the time.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#255

Post by baud147258 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:30 PM UTC

DebtDeflation wrote: post #187

mcv wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also old companies who manage to keep up and innovate, and care about competence. Not as much as tiny startups, but enough to survive and do well. One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. So tons of British politicians and managers know how to appear to know what they're doing, without actually knowing what…

>One problem with the British upperclass, is that they tend to be educated at private schools like Eton, where they primarily learn confidence. Not limited to the British upper class. It's astounding how far someone can go in life by simply being confident, charismatic, and articulate (and tall) despite being completely full of shit.

> It's astounding how far someone can go in life by simply being confident, charismatic, and articulate (and tall)

That's funny how much it describe my brother, even if he's not upper class and went to a not particularly prestigious school (called ESTP). In his case, he was already quite confident and charismatic before leaving high school.

> despite being completely full of shit

he's not completely full of shit, but I wouldn't in a thousand years work for him.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#256

Post by baud147258 » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:32 PM UTC

Marsymars wrote: post #240

csomar wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't be at all surprised to see the hotel change name in the next year, if they survive. It won't change its name. The reason they are still in business is that they are so dirt cheap. They are known in the area and avoided by almost everybody except for these "tours" and the uninformed. > But perhaps worse that that, a hotel behaving like this, and not being slapped down hard by the Tunisian authorities, will…

> Just a week before protesters were able to blockade a main road in the capital and cause a gridlock for several hours lasting until late-night. Protesters cause gridlock in countries like England, Germany or Canada too. (Google for Uber-related taxi protests.)

Add France to that list too.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#257

Post by mrguyorama » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:40 PM UTC

Mindwipe wrote: post #79

dehrmann wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's AT&T looking these days?

Netflix and WeWork are more pertinent examples tbh.

I was not aware Netflix had significant debt.

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#258

Post by adventured » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:42 PM UTC

celticninja wrote: post #234

mcv wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And from what I understand, those are exactly the skills they teach you at schools like Eton. Well, maybe not being tall, but certainly the other ones. I think the world would do well to try to inoculate itself against this sort of superficial confidence. It's way too effective, with frequently harmful results.

As examples please see Elizabeth Holmes/Theranos or Adam Neumann/WeWork neither of whom were Eton educated. I don't think it is an issue just with people educated in certain schools.

The school is quite important depending on the fraud being perpetrated. Holmes doesn't get nearly so far without the Stanford (or equivalent) tag on every propaganda puff piece the media wrote to promote her.

Elizabeth Holmes, genius dropout of Marshall University - it just doesn't raise a billion dollars in venture capital quite the same way (even with her connections to people like Draper). She was sold as the next Bill Gates (or Zuckerberg), and the next Bill Gates must drop out of a prestigious school too, because she's so brilliant and her mission is so important she must be getting on to The Big Thing. Even Stanford could not contain her. The elite school is required to sell that fraud.

WeWork by comparison is an actual company with actual revenue ($3 billion for 2019 perhaps). It's just not worth anywhere near what the pumped up VC numbers were attempting to keep inflated. Maybe in liquidation its worth $500m, maybe it's worth $3b. Theranos was not a real company, it had no real products (going by the book Bad Blood), it had no consequential sales. Neumann was selling a different sort of fiction than Holmes (both were fiction mind you).

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#259

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:45 PM UTC

human20190310 wrote: post #33

greglindahl wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you read the article, which mentions that there were negotiations up to the last minute to raise the last 200mm pounds on top of the 900mm pounds existing rescue package.

In general I think companies have a duty to their shareholders to fight to stay in business until it's literally impossible to do so. As long as there are resources left, those would have to be allocated to preserving the business, rather than to smoothing the process for their customers.

[deleted]

Re: Thomas Cook collapses, stranding 150k UK holidaymakers

#260

Post by stallmanite » Mon, Sep 23, 2019, 4:55 PM UTC

vesinisa wrote: post #210

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those companies innovate and do well but they're not online businesses. They sell specialized niche high tech physical goods not digital services.

What about IBM? Founded in 1911, $13B profit in 2018. Most successful company in several online business sectors. What about Nokia? Founded originally in 1865 as a paper mill, re-invented itself multiple times in countless different industries, before becoming the leading mobile phone manufacturer in 1990s and 2000s. They did eventually indeed succumb to their failure to evolve, but a more competent management post 2…

Google isn’t helping me here, other than mainframes which sectors does IBM dominate?